[32492.OH 07/14/96]

[handwritten - Dang Thaun interview (16th Iteration)]

[XXXX]
CJTFFA 03/24/92
CJTFFA:HWF
CJTFFA:MDJ
NONE
CJTFFA

CJTFFA DET ONE BANGKOK TH
CDR JTFFA HONOLULU HI
INGO JCS WASH DC//OCJCS-PW-MIA/J5/ IMMEDIATE
USINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J3// IMMEDIATE
USINPAC LO WASHDC// IMMEDIATE
DIA WASHDC//POW-MIA// IMMEDIATE
CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI// IMMEDIATE
NSC WASH DC // IMMEDIATE
SECSTATE WASH DC//EAP-VLC// IMMEDIATE

[XXXX]

DIA WASHDC//POW-MIA/ PASS TO POW-MIA CENTRAL
DOCUMENTATION OFFICE

DELIVER DURING FIRST SUTY HOUR

SUBJ:16TH ITERATION ADDITIONAS INFORMATION REPORT:
INTERVIEW OF FORMER PW CAMP INTERPRETERS

REF:  A. JTF-FA DET ONE 201337Z MAR 92
      B. JTF-FA DET ONE (DESERTER.16)

1.    REF A IS THE SUMMARY REPORT OF THE 16TH SERIES OF JOINT ACTIVITIES
CONDUCTED IN VIETNAM FROM 20 FEB-20 MAR 92.  PARAGRAPH 3E(5) OF REF A
DESCRIBED THE INITIAL INTERVIEW OF A FORMER INTERPRETER IN U.S. PW CAMPS IN
THE TAY NINH AREA.  THE DETAILS OF THIS INITIAL INTERVIEW AND A SUBSEQUENT
INTERVIEW OF ANOTHER FORMER INTERPRETER ARE REPORTED HEREIN.  REF B IS THE
REPORT OF INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE WITNESS CONCERNING AN ALLEGED
AMERICAN DESERTER.

2.    SUMMARY: ON 26 FEB 92, TEAM TWO INTERVIEWED FORMER ENGLISH INTERPRETER
FOR THE COMMUNIST CAMP GROUP "A" PW CAMP SYSTEM FROM 1963-75.  HE PROVIDED
BACKGROUND INFORMATION CONCERNING THE CAMP SYSTEM, PW POLICY, AND CURSORY
DETAILS CONCERNING THE SPECIFIC PRISONERS HE RECALLED.  ALTHOUGH FIELD
ANALYSIS DETERMINED THAT SOME OF THIS INFORMATION PERTAINED TO UNRESOLVED
INCIDENTS, THE BREADTH OF THIS WITNESS' KNOWLEDGE, HIS DEMONSTRATED
EVASIVENESS, AND HIS WEAKENED PHYSICAL CONDITION AT THE TIME OF THE
INTERVIEW PROMPTED THE TEAM CHIEF TO RECOMMEND HE BE THOROUGHLY INTERVIEWED
BE A SENIOR JTF-FA LINGUIST AT A LATER DATE.

3.    INFORMATION:  ON 26 FEB 92, TEAM TWO INTERVIEWED TWO WITNESSES AT THE
EMBASSY HOTEL IN HCMC.  THE U.S. CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF MICHAEL D. JANICH
(TEAM CHIEF), MSGT WILLIAM R. DEETER (ASSISTANT TEAM CHIEF), SFC GILLIS M.
TAYLOR AND CTT2 GREGORY B. WATERS (TEAM ANALYSTS), SSG TOM J. MURPHY AND SGT
JAMES D. LEE (SEARCH AND RECOVERY SPECIALISTS), AND HM1 BRUCE A. TRADER
(TEAM MEDIC).  VNOSMP MEMBERS INCLUDED DUONG VAN NGOC (ZWONG VAWN NGOCJ)
(TEAM CHIEF), PHAM CONG KHOI (PHAMJ COONG KHOOI) (MINISTRY OF NATIONAL
DEFENSE (MND) SPECIALIST), AND HOANG VAN TICH (HOANGF VAWN TICHS) (MINISTRY
OF INTERIOR (MOI) SPECIALISTS).  THE HCMC TASK TEAM INCLUDED QUACH THANH
LONG (QUACHS THANHF LONG) (HCMC EXTERNAL AFFAIRS REPRESENTATIVE), PAVN MAJ
NGUEN HONG DIEP (NGUYEENX HOONGF DIEEPJ) (HCMC MUNICIPAL MILITARY COMMAND
REPRESENTATIVE), AND TONG VAN DAP (TOONGS WAWN DAPS) (HCMC PUBLIC SECURITY
(PSS) OFFICE REPRESENTATIVE).

4.    THE FIRST WITNESS INTERVIEWED WAS DANG THUAN HOA (DAWGJ THUAANJ HOAF).
HOA WAS BORN ON 22 JUN 46 IN BEN TRE.  HE NOW RESIDES AT 150 TRAN QUY LIEU,
PHU NHUAN WARD, HCMC.  AFTER STUDYING MEDICINE FOR ONE YEAR AT THE SIAGON
MEDICAL UNIVERSITY IN 1963, HE BECAME AN INTERPRETER FOR THE COMMNIST FORCES
IN THE SIAGON AREA.  HOA DENIED BEING AFFILIATED WITH ANY PARTICULAR UNIT,
BUT STATED THAT HE WORKED FOR PHAM THUAN TRUONG (PHAMJ THUAANJ TRWONG), AKA
TU MAO (TW MAOX), THE COMMANDER OF THE CAMP GROUP "A" (LIEEN TRAIJ A) PW
CANP SYSTEM.  HOA WORKED AS TU MAO'S INTERPRETER FROM 1963 UNTIL THE END OF
THE WAR.  HOA WAS QUESTIONED CONCERNING THE ORGANIZATION OF THE CAMP SYSTEM
FOR WHICH HE WORKED, THEIR POLICIES AND PRACTICES, AND HIS KNOWLEDGE OF THE
DETENTION OF SPECIFIC AMERICAN PRISONERS.  HIS RESPONSES ARE REPORTED
HEREIN.

5.    HOA EXPLAINED THAT CAMP GROUP "A" HAD TWO CAMPS THAT WERE USED TO HOLD
U.S. PRISONERS.  THEY WERE DESIGNATED CAMP A AND CAMP B.  THE CAMP GROUP WAS
ALSO KNOWN BY THE DESIGNATION B20-1927, AND WAS SUBORDINATE TO THE POLITICAL
DEPARTMENT (CUCJ CHINHS TRIJ), ALSO KNOWN BY THE COVER DESIGNATOR 1885.  THE
POLITICAL DEPARTMENT WAS DIRECTLY SUBORDINATE TO THE HEADQUARTERS FOR THE
SOUTH VIETNAM LIBERATION ARMY (SVNLA) ("R" OR MIEENF), LOCATED NEAR LOC NINH
(XU7409).  THE INDIVIDUAL CAMPS HAD NO COVER DESIGNATORS.  CAMP A HAD A
CONSTANT PRISONER POPULATION, BUT CAMP B WOULD BE SET UP AND ANY CAPTURED
PRISONERS DELIVERED THERE FOR THEIR INITIAL PROCESSING.  THEY WOULD LATER BE
INTEGRATED INTO THE MAIN POPULATION IN CAMP A AND CAMP B DISBANDED UNTIL IS
WAS NEEDED AGAIN.  ACCORDING TO HOA, THE LAST TIME CAMP B WAS ESTABLISHED
WAS JUST PRIOR TO THE 1968 TET OFFENSIVE.  AFTER THAT TIME, IF WAS NEVER
USED AGAIN.

6.    NEITHER CAMP A OR CAMP B HAD A FIXED LOCATION.  THAY WERE MOVED
PERIODICALLY TO ENSURE SECURITY AND TO CONFORM THE TACTICAL SITUATION IN THE
REGION.  CAMO A WAS USUALLY ESTABLISHED IN THE SOC KY (SOCS KY) REGION
(XT1878) OF TAN BIEN DISTRICT, TAY NINH PROVINCE.  ACCORDING TO HOA, CAMP B
WAS SET UP IN THE "DELTA REGION" (DOONG BAWNGF), WHICH HE INPLIED
ENCOMPASSED THE FORWARD AREAS AROUND SAIGON RATHER THAN THE ACTUAL MEKONG
DELTA REGION.  THE AREA IN WHICH THE CAMP GROUP WAS AUTHORIZED TO OPERATE,
HOWEVER, WAS NOT LIMITED TO THE SAIGON-GIA DINH MILITARY REGION.

7.    WHEN A PRISONER WAS FIRST ASSIGNED TO THE CAMP GROUP "A" SYSTEM, HOA
SUPPOSEDLY CONDUCTED ONLY A BRIEF INTERVIEW TO OBTAIN HIS BIOGRAPHICAL DATA
AND ANY INFORMATION THAT MIGHT BE USEFUL TO THE ENEMY PROSELYTING OFFICE
(PHONGF DICHJ VAANJ).  HE WOULD PREPARE A FILE FROM THIS INFORMATION AND
FORWARD IT TO THE POLITICAL DEPARTMENT WHERE IT WAS MAINTAINED BY THE ENEMY
PROSELYTING OFFICE.

8.    HOA STATED THAT THE AVERAGE POPULATION OF CAMP A WAS BETWEEN 10-20
PRISONERS HE SPECIFICALLY RECALLED, HE PROVIDED THE FULL OR PARTIAL NAMES OF
EIGHT PRISONERS AND VARYING AMOUNTS OF ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR EACH.  THE
NAMES ARE PRESENTED HERE EXACTLY AS HOA WROTE THEM, FOLLOWED BY THE
AMPLIFYING INFORMATION HE PROVIDED.

-    A.  DOUGLAS RAMSEY - IDENTIFIED BY HOA AS A SENIOR CIA OFFICIAL AND
FLUENT SPEAKER OF VIETNAMESE.  RAMSEY WAS CAPTURED IN LATE 1967.  AT ONE
POINT, HE CONTRACTED MALARIA AND NEARLY DIED, BUT EVENTUALLY REGAINED HIS
HEALTH AND WAS RELEASED IN 1973.

-    B.  SCHRUMP RAYMOND - IDENTIFIED BY HOA AS A LIEUTENANT.  HE WAS
WOUNDED IN THE SHOULDER, BUT CAMP OFFICIALS WERE UNABLE TO PROVIDE HIM WITH
PROPER MEDICAL TREATMENT BECAUSE THEY LACKED PENICILLIN.

-    C.  WILLIAM HARDY - IDENTIFIED BY HOA AS A BLACK CAPTAIN ASSIGNED TO
MACV.

-    D.  SHUMAN - IDENTIFIED AS A CAPTAIN OF GERMAN DESCENT WHO WAS CAPTURED
IN MY THO.  HE ALLEGEDLY DIED OF FEVER WHILE IN CAPTIVITY AND IS BURIED IN
THE SOC KY AREA OF TAY NINH.

-    E.  DAVID COOK - IDENTIFIED AS A CAPTAIN WHO WAS CAPTURED IN BINH GIA,
BA RIA PROVINCE IN 1967.  HE DIED DURING A CAMP TRANSFER NEAR THE X3 COMMO
LIASON STATION (U/L) IN AREA (KHU) 6 OF PHOUC LONG PROVINCE.  HOA NAMED
NGUYEN VAN THIEN AS ONE OF COOK'S ESCORTS AND AS HAVING KNOWLEDGE OF HIS
BURIAL SITE.  THIEN IS PRESENTLY EMPLOYED AS MARIN PRODUCTS COMPANY 3 OF THE
SRV MINISTRY OF MARINE PRODUCTS.

-    F.  SCARF - IDENTIFIED AS A CORPORAL AND CPT COOK'S RADIO OPERATOR.  HE
WAS CAPTURED ALONG WITH COOK AND RELEASED IN 1967.

-    G.  KENET ROBABACK - IDENTIFIED AS A CAPTAIN IN THE SPECIAL FORCES,
CAPTURED IN 1963 NEAR A GUERILLA TRAINING CAMP IN HIEP HOA DISTRICT, LONG AN
PROVINCE.  HE WAS LATER EXECUTED IN RETALIATION FOR THE KILLING OF A
HIGH-RANKING VIET CONG OFFICER IN SIAGON BY U.S. FORCES.

-    H.  GUSTOV ROBERT - IDENTIFIED AS A CAPTAIN AND A PILOT.  HE WAS 29 YOA
WHEN HE WAS CAPTURED NEAR SNOUL, CAMBODIA IN 1972.  HE DIED IN CAPTIVITY AND
WAS BURIED IN THE VACINITY OF SOC KY WITH A GLASS BOTTLE CONTAINING HIS
PERSONAL DATA.

9.    HOA WAS ASKED TO DISCRIBE THE BURIAL PROCEDURES FOR PWS WHO DIED IN
CAPTIVITY AND TO IDENTIFY ANY SPECIFIC BURIAL LOCATIONS OF WHICH HE HAD
KNOWLEDGE.  HE FIRST CLAIMED THAT HE NEVER WITNESSED THE BURIAL OF ANY U.S.
PW AND CLAIMED THAT HE COULD NOT IDENTIFY ANY GRAVE SITES.  HE THEN
EXPLAINED THAT IT WAS STANDARD PROCEDURE FOR THE CAMP OFFICIALS TO BURY THE
BODIES OF DEAD PWS NEAR THE CAMP'S LOCATION.  WHEN POSSIBLE, GRAVES WOULD BE
CONCENTRATED IN THE SAME AREA TO MEKE THEM EASIER TO LOCATE AT A LAER TIME.
THE BODIES WOULD BE WRAPPED IN PLASTIC SHEET AND A SMALL BOTTLE CONTAINING A
PAPER WITH THE PW'S NAME AND PERSONAL DATA BURIED WITH THE REMAINS.  THE
GRAVE WOULD BE MARKED, BUT HOA CONFESSED THAT THESE MARKERS WERE USUALL ONLY
TEMPORARY (SUCH AS A STICK PLACED VERTICALLY IN THE GROUND) AND WOULD
PROBABLY NOT BE NOTICEABLE AFTER A FEW YEARS.  A SKETCH WOULD THEN BE
PREPARED, RELATING THE BURIAL SITE TO THE SURROUNDING AREA SO IT COULD BE
LOCATED AND EXHUMED AT A LATER TIME.  THE SKETCH WOULD BE FORWARDED TO THE
POLITICAL DEPARTMENT OF THE SVNLA ("R" OR MIEENF) WHERE IT WAS FULED FOR
FUTURE REFERENCE.  DESPITE THIS STANDING POLICY, HOA CONFIRMED THAT MANY
TIMES BURIALS WERE NOT CONDUCTED CAREFULLY.  MOREOVER, AFTER OPERATION
HOMECOMING, MANY OF THE BURIAL SKETCHES AND OTHER RECORDS WERE LOST OR
DESTROYED.  HE DID NOT KNOW ANY INCIDENCE IN WHICH THE REMAINS OF A U.S. PW
WHO HAD DIED IN CAPTIVITY HAD BEEN RECOVERED.

10.   HOA WAS ASKED SPECIFICALLY IF HE HAD ANY KNOWLEDGE OF PRISONERS NAMED
PRIDEMORE (CASE 1274) OR HERTZ (CASE 0052), THE TWO PRIMARY CASES ASSIGNED
FOR INVESTIGATION BY THE TEAM DURING THE 16TH ITERATION.  HE RESPONDED
NEGATIVELY TO BOTH, BUT SHOWED A DISTINCT FACIAL REACTION TO THE MENTION OF
THE NAME HERTZ.  THIS NAME ALSO PROMPTED THE UNSOLICITED MENTION OF ANOTHE
PRISONER.  HOA DID NOT RECALL THIS PERSON'S NAME, BUT DESCRIBED HIM AS A
LONG-HAIRED VAGABOND CIVILIAN WITH NO INFORMATION OF VALUE.  HE WAS CAPTURED
NEAR THE CAMBODIAN BORDER AND RELEASED SHORTLY THEREAFETER.

11.   ON 24 AND 25 FEB, TEAM TWO INTERVIEWED SEVERAL WITNESSES WHO PROVIDED
INFORMATION CONCERNING THE ALLEGED CAPTURE OF A RAYMOND, MORRISON, AND
KNUDSON (RMK) CORPORATION EMLPOYEE DURING 1967.  CASE 0056 (WALLIS) ALSO
INVOLVED THE CAPTURE OF AN RMK EMPLOYEE.  HOA WAS THEREFORE QUESTIONED
REGARDING ANY INFORMATION HE POSSESSED CONCERNING RMK EMPLOYEES CAPTURED IN
1968 IN ONE INCIDENT.  HE RECALLED THE NAMES OF TWO OF THEM AS "MIKE JONIE"
AND "UTECH".  THE NAME OF THE THIRD PERSON, A TALL MAN, SOUNDED SOMETHING
LIKE "COLLEEN".  HOA DID NOT RECALL THE NAME OF THE FOURTH PERSON.  HOA
CATEGORIZED ALL FOUR OF THESE PRISONERS AS BEING OF NO INTELLIGENCE OR
INFORMATION VALUE AND CLAIMED THEY WERE RELEASED SHORTLY AFTER CAPTURE.

12.   HOA EXPLAINED THAT ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS DURING THE WAR, FOREIGN
"DELEGATIONS" FROM VIETNAM'S ALLIES, SPECIFICALLY CUBA AND CHINA, VISITED
CAMP A.  HE INSISTED, HOWEVER, THAT THEY DID NOT INTERROGATE PRISONERS, BUT
VISITED ONLY TO CHECK ON THEIR WELFARE.  HE CLAIMED HE COULD NOT PROVIDE THE
NAMES OF ANY OF THE MEMBERS OF THESE DELEGATIONS OR THE DATES OF ANY OF
THEIR VISITS.

13.   WHEN QUESTIONED SPECIFICALLY CONCERNING AMERICAN DESERTERS OR
COLLABORATORS, HOA PROVIDED SUBSTANTIAL INFORMATION CONCERNING A BLACK
AMERICAN NAMED "MAC NOLAN".  NOLAN WAS AN AMERICAN DESERTER WHO REMAINED IN
VIETNAM AFTER OPERATION HOMECOMING, EVENTUALLY MOVING TO CAMBODIA WITH
ETHNIC KHMER WIFE.  THE DETAILS OF HOA'S TESTIMONY CONCERNING NOLAN ARE
REPORTED IN REF B.

14.   ON 17 MAR 92, TEAM TWO INTERVIEWED A SECOND INDIVIDUAL WHO HAD
ALLEGEDLY WORKED AS AN INTERPRETER IN THE SAME PW CAMP SYSTEM DESCRIBED BY
HOA.  THE U.S. CONTINGENT PRESENT AT THIS INTERVIEW INCLUDED ONLY MICHAEL D.
JANICH (TEAM CHIEF), MSGT WILLIAM R. DEETER (ASSISTANT TEAM CHIEF), AND CTT2
GREGORY B. WATERS (TEAM ANALYST).  VIETNAMESE REPRESENTATION INCLUDED DUONG
VAN NGOC (ZWONG VAWN NGOCJ) (VNOSMP TEAM CHIEF), PHAM CONG KHOI (PHAMJ COONG
KHOOI) ( MND SPECIALIST), PAVN MAJ NGUYEN HONG DIEP (NGUYEENX HOONGF DIEEPJ)
(HCMC MUNICIPAL MILITARY COMMAND REPRESENTATIVE), AND TONG VAN DAP (TOONGS
VAWN DAPS) (HCMC PUBLIC SECURITY (PSS) OFFICE REPRESENTATIVE). THE WITNESS
INTERVIEWED WAS DAO THAI CAT (DOAF THAIS CATS), WHO WAS BORN IN 1944 IN BAC
LIEU PROVINCE. HE PRESENTLY RESIDES AT NUMBER 6 DAM HO STREET, SUBWARD 4,
WARD 8, HCMC AND MAKES HIS LIVING AS AN AIR CONDITIONING CONTRACTOR. IN
1955, CAT MOVED TO NORTH VIETNAM. FROM 1961-66, HE STUDIED ENGLISH AT THE
HANOI LANGUAGE UNIVERSITY. IN EARLY 1966, HE RETURNED TO SOUTH VIETNAM AS AN
ASPIRANT (CHUAANR UYS) ASSIGNED AS AN INTERPRETER AND ASSISITANT TO THE
ENEMY PROSELYTING OFFICE (PHONGF DICHJ VAANJ) OF THE SVNLA HEADQUARTERS. HE
HELD THIS POSITION UNTIL 1968 WHEN HE WAS PROMOTED TO FIRST LIEUTENANT AND
TRANSFERRED TO SUBREGION 4 (PHAAN KHU 4) IN LONG THANH AS AN ENEMY
INTELLIGENCE SPECIALIST. IN 1972, HE TRANSFERRED TO SUBREGION 5 AND WORKED
IN THIS SAME CAPACITY UNTIL 1975. HIS FINAL RANK AT THE END OF THE WAR WAS
FIRST LIEUTENANT.

15.     CAT CLAIMED THAT DURING THE PERIOD HE WORKED FOR THE ENEMY
PROSELYTING OFFICE, HE WAS ASSIGNED TO A PW CAMP THAT OPERATED IN THE
GENERAL AREA OF THE PROVINCES OF TAY NINH, BINH LONG, AND PHUOC LONG.  HE
CLAIMED HE COULD NOT RECALL THE NAME OF THIS CAMP, BUT BELIEVED IT HAD A
COVER DESIGNATOR THAT BEGAN WITH THE LETTER "B". THE CAMP WAS ADMINIDTERED
BY THE ENEMY PROSELYTING OFFICE OF THE SVNLA COMMAND AND WAS COMMANDED BY A
FIRST LIEUTENANT NAMED UT HUE (UTS HUEEF) (NOW DECEASED). THIS CAMP WAS USED
TO DETAIN BOTH ARVN AND AMERICAN PWS. ACCORDING TO CAAT, THE AVERAGE NUMBER
OF PWS IN THIS CAMP AT ANY TIME INCLUDED 3-4 AMERICANS AND A LIKE NUMBER OF
SOUTH VIETNAMESE. THESE NUMBERS REMAINS FAIRLY CONSTANT DESPITE AN
OCCASIONAL PRISONER TRANSFER OR NEW ARRIVAL.

16.     CAT EXPLAINED THAT HE WORKED WITH ONE OTHER TRANSLATOR, (LNU) HOA
(HOAF). WHEN ASKED IF THIS PERSON'S FULL NAME WAS DANG THUAN HOA, CAT
CONFIRMED THAT IT WAS. HE ALSO INDICATED THAT HOA HAD MUCH MORE DIRECT
CONTACT WITH THE AMERICAN PWS THAN HE DID AND WOULD PROBABLY BE ABLE TO
PROVIDE MORE INFORMATION. CAT STATED THAT HIS DUTIES CONSISITED  PRIMARILY
OF GATHERING BIOGRAPHIC DATA ON NEEWLY ARRIVED PRISONERS, AS WELL AS
ASSESSING THEIR ATTITUDES TOWARD THE WAR FOR USE IN ENEMY PROSELYTING
EFFORTS. ACCORDING TO CAT, A BIOGRAPHIC FILE OF EACH PRISONER WAS PREPARED
AND FORWARDED TO THE ENEMY PROSELYTING OFFICE. HE, HOWEVER, COULD NOT RECALL
THE EXACT CONTENTS OF THESE FILES. ALL COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE ENEMY
PROSELYTING OFFICE WAS DONE BY LETTER AMD WAS ADDRESSED TO THE CHIEF OF THE
OFFICE, LTC MUOI LUONG (MWOIF LWONGJ) (REAL NAME UNKNOWN). THE CAMP HAD NO
RADIO  OR MORSE COMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT. CAT INSISTED THAT NO WRITTEN
RECORDS WERE MAINTAINED  AT THE CAMP BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO CUMBERSOME TO
CARRY DURING THEIR FREQUENT MOVES. HE ALSO DOUBTED THAT ANY OF THE RECORDS
CONCERNING U.S. PWS  THAT WERE FORWARDED TO THE ENEMY PROSELYTING OFFICE
STILL EXISTED.

17.     CAT CLAIMED HE COULD NOT CLEARLY RECALL MANY DETAILS OF THE
AMERICANS HELD IN THE CAMP. HE PROVIDED THE NAMES AND LIMITED  BACKROUND
INFORMATION CONCERNING ONLY TWO: "HARRY RAMSEY" AND "COOK". HE INDICATED
THAT RAMSEY WAS CAUCASIAN, APPROXIMATELY 36 YOA AT THAT TIME, UNMARRIED, AND
GENERALLY IN GOOD SPIRITS. COOK HELD THE RANK OF CAPTAIN AND DIED OF MALARIA
IN AN AREA CALLED SUOI DA (SUOOIS DAS) (POSSIBLY XT4750, XT3857, OR XT1953)
DURING A TRANSFER OF THE CAMP. CAT CLAIMS THAT COOK'S BODY WAS NOT BURIED,
SIMPLY COVERED WITH ROCKS. HE INSISTED HE COULD NOT DESCRIBE THE LOCATION
WHERE COOK'S REMAINS WERE ABANDONED OR IDENTIFY IT ON A MAP. (NOTE: SEVERAL
ENTRIES FOR SUOI DA APPEAR IN THE GAZATTEER, BUT WITHOUT A MORE  SPECIFIC
AREA LOCATION, NONE COULD BE DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE INCIDENT
DESCRIBED.)

18.     CAT INDICATED THAT SEVERAL OTHER AMERICAN PWS DIED OF ILLNESS IN THE
CAMP OR DURING MOVEMENT OF THE CAMP FROM ONE LOCATION TO ANOTHER. HE
INSISITED, HOWEVER, THAT HE COULD NOT RECALL THE NUMBER OF PRISONERS WHO
DIED, THEIR IDENTITIES, THEIR DESCRIPTIONS, ANY DETAILS OF THEIR PERSONAL
HISTORIES, THE TIMES OR CIRCUMSTANCES OF THEIR DEATHS, OR THE DETAILS OF THE
DISPOSITION OF THEIR REMAINS. CAT WAS QUESTIONED CONCERNING HIS KNOWLEDGE OF
THE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES OF THE CAMP TO  WHICH HE BELONGED. HE INITIALLY
CALIMED NO KNOWLEDGE CONCERNING THESE TOPICS. HE THEN STATED THAT THERE WERE
NO ESTABLISHED BURIAL PROCEDURES.

19.     CAT CLAIMED THAT, AFTER HIS TRANSFER TO SUBREGION 4 IN 1968, HE WAS
ATTACHED TO ANOTHER PW CAMP ADMINISTERED BY THE SUBREGION NEAR CAM DUONG
STREAM (SUOOIS CAM DWONGF) (U/L), LONG THANH (D), BA RIA (P). HE INSISTED HE
COULD NOT GIVE A MORE PRECISE LOCATION FOR THIS CAMP OR IDENTIFY IT ON A
MAP. HE ALSO COULD NOT RECALL ANYTHING CONCERNING THE ADMINISTRATION OR
STAFF OF THIS CAMP. THERE WERE REPORTEDLY THREE FOREIGN PRISONERS AT THIS
CAMP WHEN CAT ARRIVED THERE: ONE AMERICAN AND TWO SOUTH KOREANS. AN
UN-RECALLED TIME LATER, A SECOND AMERICAN ARRIVED. CAT COULD NOT RECALL ANY
SUBSTANTIAL DETAILS CONCERNING THESE PRISONERS OR THEIR IDENTITIES. HE
REMEMBERED ONLY THAT THE AMERICAN WHO ENTERED THE CAMP LAST WAS A CAPTAIN
(SERVICE UNKNOWN) AND WAS OF LARGE STATURE. HE ALLEDGEDLY ESCAPED FROM THE
CAMP ONCE AND WAS RECAPTURED. LATER IN THE INTERVIEW, CAT WAS ASKED IF HE
HAD EVER SEEN OR HEARD OF A BLACK AMERICAN PW. AFTER A VERY LONG PAUSE, HE
STATED THAT ONE OF THE PWS HELD IN THE SUBREGION 4 CAMP WAS BLACK. HE COULD
NOT RECALL IF THIS PW WAS THE SAME ONE WHO HAD ESCAPED AND BEEN RECAPTURED.
CAT INSISTED THAT HE DID NOT KNOW THE FATES OF THE PRISONERS KEPT IN THE
SUBREGION 4 CAMPS.

20.     AFTER 1972, WHEN CAT WAS REASIGNED TO SUBREGION 5 IN BINH DUONG
PROVINCE, HE REPORTEDLY HAD NO FURTHER CONTACT WITH U.S. PWS.

21.     WHEN QUESTIONED ON THE SUBJECT OF U.S. DESERTERS OR COLLABORATORS,
CAT CLAIMED THAT HE HAD HEARD RUMORS OF SUCH PERSONS, BUT HAD NO DETAILED
FIRSTHAND OR HEARSAY  KNOWLEDGE OF ANY SPECIFIC CASE. HE WAS CONFIDENT THAT
ALL AMERICANS WERE RETURNED IN 1973 AND NEVER HEARD OF ANY AMERICAN WHO
REMAINED BEHIND IN INDOCHINA AFTER THAT TME. HE SPECIFICALLY DENIED ANY
KNOWLEDGE OF ANYONE BY THE NAME OF "MAC NOLAN" OR "MCKINLEY NOLAN."

22.     CAT ALSO DENIED ANY KNOWLEDGE OF ANY PERSONS NAMED HERTZ (CASE 0052)
OR PRIDEMORE (CASE 1274). HE COMMENTED THAT HE WOULD HAVE RECALLED THAT
LATTER NAME BECAUSE IT SOUNDER SIMILAR TO "CLAYMORE", A TERM WITH WHICH ALL
VIETNAMESE WERE VERY FAMILIAR.

23.     DURING THE INTERVIEW, CAT ADMITTED THAT HE HAD MAITAINED  A
COLLECTION (TAAPJ) OF PRIVATE NOTES CONCERNING THE AMERICAN PWS WITH WHOM HE
HAD CONTACT. HE INITIALLY ESTIMATED THIS NUMBER OF PWS AT APPROXIMATELY 40.
WHEN ASKED HOW THIS COULD BE WHEN HE CLAIMED CONTACT WITH A TOTAL OF ONLY
5-6 PRISONERS (3-4 IN THE FIRST CAMP AND TWO IN THE SECOND), HE CLAIMED THAT
THE INFORMATION HE OBTAINED ON THE REMAINING NUMBER OF PWS WAS BASED ON
HEARSAY. CAT CLAIMED THAT, AFTER HE WAS CONTACTED BY THE VNOSMP FOR
INTERVIEW, HE TRIED TO LOCATE THESE RECORDS, BUT WITHOUT SUCCESS. HE
EXPLAINED THAT HE HAD JUST MOVED INTO A NEW RESIDENCE AND HAD EITHER
MISPLACED OR LOST THEM.

24.     COMMENTS:

-       A. THROUGHOUT THE INTERVIEW PROCESS, HOA HAD MADE A DELIBERATE
EFFORT TO SPEAK QUICKLY AMD INDISTINCLY AND CHANGED SUBJECTS OFTEN. HIS
RESPONSE TECHNIQUES WERE OBVIOUSLY INSPIRED BY HIS MANY YEARS OF EXPERIENCE
AS AN INTERROGATOR. WHEN ASKED SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, HE WOULD PROVIDE A
CURSORY ANSWER AND IMMEDIATELY OFFER INFORMATION ON A DIFFERENT, BUT EQUALLY
IMPORTANT, SUBJECT. THIS SERIOUSLY HAMPERED THE METHODICAL QUESTIONING
PROCEDURE NORMALLY EMPLOYED BY THE TEAM. THE TEAM CHIEF MADE NUMEROUS
REQUESTS FOR HIM TO SPEAK SLOWLY AND RESTRICT HIS COMMENTS TO THE SUBJECT AT
HAND; HOWEVER, HE CONTINUED THESE TACTICS THROUGHOUT THE INTERVIEW. IT WAS
CLEAR THAT HOA POSSESSES LARGE AMOUNTS OF INFORMATION PERTINENT TO THE MIA
ISSUE, BUT BECAUSE OF HIS CONSUMMATE ABILITY TO FRUSTRATE THE INTEVIEW
PROCESS, A SERIES OF PROLONGED INTERVIEWS WILL BE NECESSARY TO FULLY EXPLOIT
THIS KNOWLEDGE. ACCORDING TO THE VNOSMP, HOA WAS PRESENTED FOR INTERVIEW
IMMEDIATELY AFTER HIS RELEASE FROM THE HOSPITAL, WHERE HE WAS ALLEGEDLY
UNDERGOING TREATMENT FOR AN UNSPECIFIED RESPIRATORY AILMENT. DUE TO HOA'S
ALLEGED WEAKENED CONDITION, MR. NGOC ENCOURAGED THE TEAM NOT TO  INTERVIEW
HIM AT LENGTH AND TO CONCLUDE THE SESSION AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. THIS
FURTHER COMPLICATED THE INTERVIEW PROCESS. IN VIEW OF HOA'S IMPORTANCE AS A
WITNESS, THE TEAM CHIEF BELIEVED HE SHOULD BE INTERVIEWED BY THE MOST
EXPERIENCED JTF-FA LINGUIST AND THE ONE WITH THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF
INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE, MR. GARNETT BELL. THIS BELIEF, ALONG WITH THE TIME
CONSTRAINTS IMPOSED BY HOA'S ALLEGED WEAKENED CONDITION, PROMTED THE TEAM
CHIEF TO RECOMMEND THAT A COMPLETE INTERVIEW WITH MR. HOA BE POSTPONED UNTIL
A LATER DATE. BOTH MR. HOA AND MR. NGOC OF THE VNOSMP AGREEED TO THIS
SUGGESTION, AND TO ALLOW MR. BELL TO CONDUCT THAT INTERVIEW. COMPLETE
DETAILS CONCERNING THE UNRESOLVED CASES SITED IN PARAGRAPH 25 WILL BE
ELICITED AT THAT TIME.

-       B.      LONG AFTER THE TEAM HAD COMPLETED THEIR INTERVIEW OF HOA,
WHILE WORKING IN CUU LONG PROVINCE, THE SUBJECT OF THE INTERVIEW CAME UP.
BOTH MR. NGOC AND MR. TICH OF THE VNOSMP, IN A CONTEXT OF CASUAL
CONVERSATION, EXPRESSED THEIR FRUSTRATION AT WORKING WITH HOA. THEY  STATED
THAT HE WAS EQUALLY  EVASIVE, NONCOMMITTAL, AND UNCOOPERATIVE WHEN
APPROACHED BY THEM. MR NGOC ALSO MENTIONED THAT HOA HAD SHOWN HIM AND OTHER
VIETNAMESE OFFICIALS A COLLECTION OF PERSONAL FILES ON THE U.S. PWS WITH
WHOM HE HAD WORKED WHICH HE STILL RETAINED IN HIS HOME. MR. NGOC INDICATED
THAT THIS COLLECTION OF FILES WAS APPROXIMATELY ONE-HALF INCH THICK AND
APPEARED VERY DETAILED. MR. NGOC COULD NOT PROVIDE ANY FURTHER INFORMATION
CONCERNING THESE FILES AND THEIR CONTENTS BECAUSE HOA ALLEGEDLY REFUSED TO
ALLOW SRV GOVERNMENT REPRESENTATIVES TO EXAMINE THEM. HOA HAD DENIED
PREPARING OR MAINTAINING ANY TYPE OF PERSONAL FILES OR DIARY CONCERNING U.S.
PRISONERS DURING HIS INTERVIEW. IF MR. NGOC'S CLAIM CONCERNING THESE FILES
IS TRUE, IT FURTHER CONFIRMS HOA'S DECEPTIVE NATURE AND WILLINGNESS TO
PROVIDE FURTHER ERRONEOUS INFORMATION DURING AN INTERVIEW.

-       C       DAO THAI CAT WAS AS EVASIVE AND NONCOMMITTAL AS HOA, BUT
APPLIED DIFFERENT TACTICS TO FRUSTRATE THE INTERVIEW PROCESS. HE CLAIMED HE
WAS UNABLE TO RECALL PRACTICALLY EVERYTHING ABOUT HIS ACTIVITIES DURING THE
WAR AND WOULD PAUSE, OFTEN FOR NEARLY A FULL MINUTE, BEFORE ISSUING A
RESPONSE TO A QUESTION. ALTHOUGH IT IS NATURAL TO FORGET A CERTAIN DEGREE OF
DETAIL ABOUT ONE'S PAST ACTIVITIES, IT SEEMS DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE THAT CAT
LIVED IN A CAMP FOR TWO YEARS AND COULD NOT RECALL ITS NAME. SUCH TACTICS
CAST CONSIDERABLE DOUBT ON HIS CREDIBILITY AS A WITNESS.

-       D       ALTHOUGH CAT CLAIMED TO HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED TO THE SAME CAMP
AS HOA, THEY PROVIDED DIFFERENT INFORMATION CONCERNING THE CAMP
ORGANIZATION, STAFF, AND PRISONER POPULATION. SINCE BOTH INDIVIDUALS WERE
OBVIOUSLY DECEPTIVE IN THEIR RESPONSES, IT IS DIFFICULT TO DO A COMPARATIVE
ANALYSIS OF THE INFORMATION THEY PROVIDED. IN GENERAL, HOWEVER, THE MINIMAL
AMOUNT OF SPECIFIC INFORMATION PROVIDED BY HOA SEEMED MORE AUTHORITATIVE
THAN THAT PROVIDED BY CAT.

25.     ANALYST COMMENTS:       THE FOLLOWING LINE ITEMS PROVIDE THE NAME,
CASE NUMBER, AND STATUS OF THE INDIVIDUALS NAMED BY HOA IN PARAGRAPH 8:

A.  DOUGLAS RAMSEY: CASE 0234: RELEASED 12 FEB 73
B.  RAYMOND SCHRUMP: CASE 1189: RELEASED 12 FEB 73
C.  CPT WILLIAM HARDY: CASE 0742: RELEASED 12 FEB 73
D.  MAJ ARTHUR SHUMAN III: CASE 1090: DEAD, REMAINS NOT RECOVERED
E.  CPT DONALD COOK: CASE 0050: DEAD, REMAINS NOT RECOVERED
F.  NO RECORD IN JTF-FA FILES
G.  SFC KENNETH RORABACK: CASE 0024: DEAD, REMAINS NOT RECOVERED
H.  NO RECORD IN JTF-FA FILES
[XXXX]