[231812Z.OH 06/07/96]

RCV10774                            18:48 06/24/93

VZCZBT0804
RR RUEHBT                  CJTF - 2 PW - MIA-2
DE RUHQSGG #6004 1741812
ZNR UUUUU
R 231812Z JUN 93 ZYB
FM CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI//J2/f
TO RUEHBT/CJTFFA DET ONE BANGKOK TH
INFO RHEHNSC/WHITE HOUSE  NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC
RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/OCS/CCS/EAP/VLC//
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//OASD-ISA/PW-MIA//
RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC//OCJCS/J5/PW-MIA/J3-JOD//
RUEKJCS/USCINCPAC LO WASHINGTON DC
RUHQHQB/USCINPAC HONOLULU HI//J3/J30-M//
RUEKJCS/DIA WASHINGTON DC//PW-MIA//
RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC//DEA/SEA/IB/DDO/EA/ICOG//
RUHVAAA/CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI//TAPC-PED-H//
RUEHBT/USDAO BANGKOK TH//PW-MIA//
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UNCLAS //N03460//
SECTION 01 OF 02
MSGIS.SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J2//
AMPN/SUBJ: INTERVIEW OF  REQUESTED SOURCE, MR. NGP DAT TAI//
REF/A/FAX/DET 2/16MAY93//
AMPN/SUBJ: LIST OF  PERSONS FOR INTERVIEW-SENATOR KERRY, ENTRY


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NUMBER 3 OF  83//
RMKS/1. BACKGROUND. ON 12 MAY 1993, A JOINT US/VIETNAM TEAM
INTERVIEWED MR. NGO DAT TAI, A RETIRED COLONEL, NATIVE OF NAM HA
PROVINCE, BORN IN 1918, AND A FORMER CHIEF OF AN ENEMY
PROSELYTING SECTION IN SOUTHERN VIETNAM UNTIL 1972 WHEN HE
TRANSFERRED TO THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT, GENERAL
POLITICAL DIRECTORATE IN HANOI. HE CURRENTLY RESIDES ON ICH
KHIEM STREET IN HANOI. THE TEAM NET AT THE ANTE-BUILDING MEETING
ROOM OF THE GOVERNMENT GUEST HOUSE, 2 LE THACH STREET, HOAN KIEM
DISTRICT, HANOI, TO INTERVIEW SELECTED PERSONNEL, LISTED IN
REFERENCE, WHO ARE BELIEVED TO BE POTENTIAL SOURCES OF
INFORMATION CONCERNING U.S. PERSONNEL MISSING IN ACTION IN
VIETNAM. THE U.S. CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF MR. KEITH GARY
FLANAGAN, DET 2 CASUALTY RESOLUTION SPECIALIST. THE VIETNAMESE
CENTRAL GOVERNMENT CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF LTC LE KY, MINISTRY OF
DEFENSE; AND MR. NGUYEN THANG LOI, MINISTRY OF INTERIOR. ON 12
HAY 1993, LT KY ESCORTED MR. NGO DAT TAI TO THE GOVERNMENT GUEST
HOUSE. MR. TAI SAID HE HAD NOT BEEN INTERVIEWED BY JOINT TEAMS
PREVIOUSLY MR. TAI HAD ORIGINALLY BEEN SCHEDULED FOR INTERVIEW
ON 17 MAY, BUT HIS INTERVIEW WAS MOVED UP DUE TO THE INABILITY TO

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CONTACT OTHER PERSONNEL WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT FOR INTERVIEW ON
12 MAY.
2. SUMMARY. THE SOURCE PROVIDED LIMITED INFORMATION CONCERNING
U.S. PERSONNEL WHO WERE RELEASED TO U. S. CONTROL AFTER DIFFERENT
PERIODS OF CAPTIVITY. THE SOURCE PROVIDED LIMITED DETAILS OF HIS
MILITARY ASSIGNMENT, DUTIES, RESPONSIBILITIES, AND EXPERIENCE
DURING THE WAR. THE SOURCE PROVIDED NO INFORMATION CONCERNING
U.S. PERSONNEL WHO BECAME UNACCOUNTED FOR.
3. DETAILS.
A. MR. TAI DID NOT RELATE MUCH OF  HIS HISTORY PRIOR TO 1970, BUT
SAID THAT BY SEPTEMBER 1970 HE WAS ASSIGNED TO THE POST IN THE
SOUTH. HE ALSO RECALLED THAT THE PROVISIONAL REVOLUTIONARY
GOVERNMENT RELEASED A "DIED IN CAPTIVITY" LIST. MR. TAI SAID THAT
MR. TAM  HUY (TAMS HUY) AKA LE HUY (LEE HUY) WAS THE CAMP COMMANDER
AND, AS SUCH, WAS IN CHARGE OF THE POWS. MR. TAI SAID THAT HE DID NOT
KNOW ANY SPECIFICS HIMSELF.

B. IN HIS OWN WORDS,  MR. TAI DESCRIBED THE FOLLOWING:
DURING THE PERIOD FROM 1962 UNTIL 1965, HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE
ENEMY PROSELYTING SECTION, SERVING IN THE SOUTHERN REGION WITH
THE NATIONAL LIBERATION FRONT. IN 1965, WITH THE ESCALATION OF

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THE WAR AND THE INCREASING U.S. PRESENCE, THE SECTION TO WHICH HE
WAS ASSIGNED MAINTAINED ONE VERY MOBILE DETENTION FACILITY, NOT A
CAMP, IN THE GENERAL TAY NINH REGION. HE EMPHASIZED THAT THE
CAMP WAS ALWAYS MOVING AROUND. THE PRIMARY CONCERN WAS TO HAVE
AN EXIT ROUTE AVAILABLE IF NEEDED, OR IF THE CAMP WAS IN DANGER
OF DISCOVERY BY HOSTILE FORCES. FROM  THE VERY BEGINNING, HE
SAID, HIS SECTION HAD RECEIVED AND FOLLOWED THE HUMANITARIAN
POLICY OF BURYING THE DEAD AND MAINTAINING THE GRAVES OF POWS AND
THEIR OWN PERSONNEL IN THE BEST POSSIBLE MANNER. THEY RECORDED
THE DEATHS: NAME,  DATE, LOCATION, ETC. IN THE BEST POSSIBLE
MANNER FOR EACH CASE, BUT EACH CASE WAS UNIQUE AND ANY DETAILS OF
THE RECORDED DATA DEPENDED ON THE IMMEDIATE CIRCUMSTANCES OF EACH
CASE. HE SAID THAT REGIONS OF RESPONSIBILITY WERE SPLIT INTO
THREE GENERAL AREAS: WEST REGION, WEST OF THE MEKONG RIVER,
CENTRAL REGION, MR7 AND MR8;  AND THE NORTHEASTERN REGION, MR5.
FOR HIS SECTION, MR. TAI SAID THAT, GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE
LARGEST NUMBER OF POWS EVER HELD AT ONE TIME  WAS AROUND TEN, BUT
AT THE LEAST, USUALLY FIVE OR SIX. MR.TAI SAID THAT FROM THE
VERY BEGINNING, HIS SECTION'S  PRIMARY FOCUS WAS JUST HOW TO KEEP
U.S.  POWS  ALIVE. HE SAID THAT VIETNAMESE IN DETENTION WERE NOT

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AS MUCH  OF A PROBLEM.  THE VIETAMESE DETAINEES COULD LIVE ON THE
FOOD  AND WATER THAT WAS READILY AVAILABLE. HE SAID THAT FOOD AND
WATER, EVEN THE AMOUNTS NEEDED, FOR U.S. POWs WAS A SERIOUS
PROBLEM. HE SAID THAT ONE POW HE REMEMBERED WELL WAS "SMITH."
HE SAID THAT THEIR POLICY TOWARDS  ????? WAS ALWAYS TO TAKE EVERY
POSSIBLE MEASURE TO  KEEP THE  U.S. POWS ALIVE AND  HEALTHY. MR.
TAI SAID THAT  WHENEVER POSSIBLE, IF THEY HAD THE MEANS, THEY
PROVIDED MEDICAL TREATMENT FOR ALL THE POWS WHEN THEY WERE ILL.
C. MR. TAI SAID THAT THE CONCEPT OF FAMILY  WAS VERY IMPORTANT
TO THE VIETNAMESE  AND  HIS SECTION ALWAYS SAID  A GREAT DEAL OF
ATTENTION TO FAMILY MATTERS FOR THE POWS.  HE SAID WHEN THEY RELEASED
SMITH  AND "CLURE" (AS SPELLED BY SOURCE), HE REMEMBERED THAT
"RITA" WAS CLURE'S WIFE'S NAME,  AND HIS SECTION GAVE ONE SCARF
TO SMITH TO GIVE TO MRS. SMITH AND ONE SCARF TO CLURE TO GIVE TO
"RITA." MR. TAI RECALLED THAT HIS SECTION ALSO RELEASED SOME
AUSTRALIANS IN CAMBODIAN  TERRITORY. HE SAID THAT HIS SECTION
ASKED SMITH AND CLURE TO TELL THE U.S. PEOPLE ABOUT THE
CONSEQUENCES OF B-52 RAIDS OVER VIETNAM.  HE SAID THAT THEIR
RELEASE WAS SIMPLY A GESTURE OF PROMOTING PEACE.
D. WHEN ASKED ABOUT CAPTIVE AMERICANS WHO MAY HAVE DIED OF

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THEIR WOUNDS  PRIOR TO ARRIVING AT THEIR DETENTION POINT, MR. TAI SAID
THAT HE REMEMBERED ONE BLACK SERVICEMAN  WHO WAS SERIOUSLY WOUNDED. MR.
TAI SAID THAT THE DOCTOR WHO TREATED THE BLACK MAN TOLD HIM THAT THE
WOUNDS WERE SERIOUS ENOUGH THAT THE PRISONER WOULD PROBABLY DIE IF HE
WAS NOT RELEASED. MR. TAI SAID THAT HE DID NOT REMEMBER THE BLACK MAN'S
NAME, HE VAGUELY RECALLED THAT IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE "BRY-HAM".  MR.
TAI SAID THAT HE ONLY HEARD THE NAME SPOKEN AND NEVER SAW IT WRITTEN
ANYWHERE PRIOR TO THE BLACK MAN'S RELEASE.

F. CONCERNING WARTIME  REPORTING ON U.S. PRISONERS, AND WHEN
ASKED ABOUT DOCUMENTS, RECORDS, ARCHIVES, AND  DIARIES,  MR. TAI
SAID THAT DETAILS ON THE POWS WERE, IN  FACT, REPORTEDLY VERBALLY
UP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND.  MR. TAI SAID HIS SECTION KEPT NO RECORDS
IN THE JUNGLE. MR. TAI SAID THAT HE BELIEVED THAT ONLY THE
MINISTRY OF DEFENSE AT THE HIGHER LEVELS WOULD  STILL HAVE ANY
RECORDS. MR. TAI ALSO SAID THAT ONLY THOSE CADRE OF THE ENEMY
PROSELYTING SECTION WHO WERE DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH THE PRISONERS
WOULD HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF WHERE THOSE RECORDS WOULD BE NOW.
MR. TAI RECALLED THAT IN HIS ELEMENT,  THERE WAS ONE CAPTAIN,
NGUYEN. TAN LUC (NGUYEENX  TAANS LWCJ) WHO ROUTINELY FOLLOWED ALL

BT

#6004

RCV10775                    18:51  06/24/93

VZCZCBTO805
RR RUEHBT
DE RUHQSGG #6005 1742812
ZNR UUUUU
R 231812Z JUN 93 ZYB
FM CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI//J2//
TO  RUEHBJ/CJTFFA DET ONE BANGKOK TH
INFO RHEHNSC/WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC
RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/OCS/CCS/EAP/VLC//
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//OASD-ISA/PW-MIA//
RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC//OCJCS/J5/PW-MIA/J3-JOD//
RUEKJCS/USCINCPAC LO WASHINGTON DC
RUHQHQB/USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J3/J30-M//
RUEKJCS/DIA WASHINGTON DC//PW-MIA//
RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC//DEA/SEA/IB/DDO/EA/ICOG//
RUHVAAA/CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI//TAPC-PED-H//
RUEHBT/USDAO BANGKOK TH//PW-MIA//
BT
UNCLAS //N03460/
FINAL SECTION OF 02
MSGIS.SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J2//
AMPN/SUBJ: INTERVIEW OF REQUESTED SOURCE, MR. NGO DAT TAI//
OF THE EVENTS OF THE WAR AND KEPT A DIARY. MR. TAI SAID THAT
SINCE THAT TIME HE DID NOT KNOW OF OR RECALL ANYONE ELSE WHO

PAGE 02 RUHQSGG6005 UNCLAS
MIGHT HAVE KEPT A DIARY OR ANY DOCUMENTS RELATING TO POWS.
G. MR. TAI SAID THAT STANDARD  OPERATING PROCEDURES CONSISTED OF
ALWAYS MAINTAINING THE LEAST AMOUNT OF INFORMATION WRITTEN ON PAPER.
MR. TAI SAID THAT IT WOULD BE EXTREMELY UNUSUAL FOR ANYONE TO LEAVE
AN AREA WHERE PRISONERS WERE KEPT WITH ANY WRITTEN INFORMATION OF
ANY KIND. MR. TAI REITERATED THAT IN ORDER TO FIND RELEVANT
DOCUMENTS WE SHOULD LOOK AT THE MINISTRY OR DIRECTORATE LEVEL.

H. MR. FLANAGAN ASKED THE QUESTION: "SINCE THE RELEASE OF U.S.
PRISONERS IN 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY LIVE AMERICANS?" MR. TAI
RESPONDED THAT TO THIS KNOWLEDGE, THERE HAVE BEEN NO POWS IN VIETNAM
SINCE 1973.

I. MR. FLANAGAN ASKED THE QUESTION: "SINCE THE RELEASE OF  U.S.
PRISONERS IN 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY 'STAY-BEHINDS?" MR. TAI
RESPONDED THAT TO HIS KNOWLEDGE, THERE WERE NO STAY-BEHINDS.  MR.
TAI SAID THIS INTERVIEW WAS THE FIRST TIME HE HAD MET ANY
AMERICANS SINCE 1973.

J. ON 12 MAY 93, WITH NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS AT HAND FOR
MR. TAI, THE MEMBERS OF THE JOINT TEAM AGREED TO DISCONTINUE THIS
INTERVIEW. BOTH THE US AND SRV MEMBERS CONFERRED ON ADDITIONAL

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QUESTIONS WHICH SHOULD BE CONSIDERED BEFORE CONCLUDING THIS
INTERVIEW.
4. POTENTIAL LEADS OBTAINED  DURING THE INTERVIEW.
A. MR. TAM HUY (TAMS HUY) AKA LE HUY (LEE HUY)  WHO WAS THE
CAMP COMMANDER  IN THE TAY NINH REGION, AND, AS SUCH, WAS IN
CHARGE OF THE POWS. MR. TAI SAID THAT PARTICULARLY TAM HUY SHOULD
BE OUR BEST SOURCE OF INFORMATION.

B. FORMER CAPTAIN NGUYEN TAN LUC (NGUYEENX TANS LWCJ) WHO
ROUTINELY FOLLOWED ALL or THE EVENTS or THE WAR AND KEPT A DIARY. MR.
TAI BELIEVES THAT LUC WAS FROM SAIGON.

C. NGUYEN HUU TRI (NGUYEENX HWUX TRIS), AN INTERPRETER  FROM
HIGHER LEVEL WHO FREQUENTLY VISITED THE PRISONERS.

D. LE DO NGOC (LEE DOOR NGOCJ) ANOTHER INTERPRETER WHO
OCCASIONALLY VISITED THE CAMPS. HE NOW LIVES IN HANOI.

E. NGUYEN VA HA (NGHUYEENX VAWN HAF)  WHO WORKED IN THE CAMP.

F. MR.  TAI SAID THAT HE DID NOT REMEMBER THE NAMES OF ANY
DOCTORS, NURSES, OR MEDICAL PERSONNEL WHO TREATED U.S. PRISONERS.
5. MATERIAL EVIDENCE: NONE. THIS SOURCE BROUGHT NO RECORDS, NOTEBOOKS,
DIARIES, OR ANY MATERIAL EVIDENCE CONTEMPORARY TO THE WARTIME ERA
WHICH COULD BE ASSOCIATED WITH ANY UNACCOUNTED FOR

PAGE 04 RUHQSGG6005 UNCLAS U.S.
PERSONNEL.
6. RECOMMENDED FUTURE ACTIONS.

A. RECOMMEND NO FURTHER JOINT INTERVIEW OF THIS SOURCE
UNLESS THE VIETNAMESE OR U.S. SIDES CAN PRODUCE SPECIFIC
INFORMATION OR FURNISH MORE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS OR LEADS.

8. REQUEST THE VNOSMP ALLOW THE U.S. ACCESS TO THIS SOURCE FOR
POTENTIAL FUTURE INTERVIEW IN THE EVENT THAT SIGNIFICANT SPECIFIC
QUESTIONS ARE DEEMED NECESSARY.
7. PERTINENT LOCATION OR DATA CHANGES:  NONE.
9. COMMENTS.  AFTER THIS INTERVIEW, THE MEMBERS OF
THE JOINT TEAM ASSESSED ALL POTENTIAL ADDITIONAL LEADS PROVIDED BY
THE SOURCE. THE CONSENSUS OF TEAM MEMBERS WAS THAT CONTINUATION
OF THIS INTERVIEW OR AN ATTEMPT TO REINTERVIEWTHIS SOURE WOULD
DEPEND ON SIGNIFICANT QUESTION WHICH SHOULD BE ASKED PERTAINING TO
SPECIFIC INCIDENTS OR SPECIFIC QUESTIONS WHICH NIGHT LEAD TO
FINDING NEW WITNESSES OR DISCOVERING CONTEMPORARY DOCUMENTATION
WITH DETAILS ON SPECIFIC CASES. TAKING INTO THE CONSIDERATION THE
PERSONNEL AND EVENTS THAT THIS SOURCE DID RECALL, IT SEEMS
REALISTIC TO EXPECT THAT THIS SOURCE SHOULD HAVE HAD SOME
INFORMATION ON U.S. PERSONNEL WHO REMAIN IN AN UNACCOUNTED FOR

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STATUS.//

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