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RCV10589       00:38    06/24/93
VZCZCBT0620
RR RUEHBT
DE RUHQSGG #5395 1731902
ZNR UUUUU
R 221902Z JUN 93 ZYB
FM  CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI//J2//
TO RUEKJCS/DIA WASHINGTON DC//PW-MIA//
INFO RHEHNSC/WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//OASD-ISA/PW-MIA//
RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/OCS/CCS/EAP/VLC//
RUEKJCS/JOINT ST AFF WASHINGT ON DC//OCJCS/J5/PW-MIA/J3-JOD//
RUHQHQB/USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J2/J3/J30-M//
RUEKJCS/USCINCPAC LO WASHINGTON DC
RUEKJCS/DIA WASHINGTON DC//PW-MIA//
RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC/DEA/SEA/IB/DDO/EA/ICOG//
RUHVAAA/CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI//TAPC-PED-H//
RUEHBT/USDAO BANGKOK TH//PW-MIA//
RUEHBJ/CJTFFA DET ONE BANGKOK TH
BT
UNCLAS //N03460//
SECTION 01 OF 02
MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J2//
AMPN/SUBJ: INTERVIEW OF REQUESTED SOURCE, MR. LE DO NGOC//
REF/A/FAX/DET 2/16MAY93//

PAGE 02 RUHQSGG5395  UNCLAS
AMPN/SUBJ: LIST OF PERSONS FOR INTERVIEW-SENATOR KERRY, ENTRY
NUMBER 4 OF 83//
RMKS/1.  BACKGROUND. ON 12 MAY 1993, A JOINT US/VIETNAM
INTERVIEW TEAM INTERVIEWED MR. LE DO NGOC (LEE DOOR NCOC),
CURRENTLY 46 YEARS OF AGE AND RESIDENT OF HANOI. ACCORDING TO
HIS BUSINESS CARD, MR. NGOC IS THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE PRIVATE
AID FROM CHARITIES COMMITTEE (PACCOM), A COMMITTEE HEADQUARTERED
IN THE VIETNAMESE CAPITAL WITH THE MISSION OF COORDINATING AID
FROM NON-GOVERNMENT AGENCIES. THE TEAM MET AT THE ANTE-BUILDING
MEETING ROOM OF THE GOVERNMENT GUEST HOUSE, 2 LE THACH STREET,
HOAN KIEN DISTRICT, HANOI, TO INTERVIEW SELECTED PERSONNEL
LISTED IN REFERENCE, WHO ARE BELIEVED TO BE POTENTIAL SOURCES OF
INFORMATION CONCERNING U.S. PERSONNEL MISSING IN ACTION IN
VIETNAM.  THE U.S. CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF MR. KEITH GARY
FLANAGAN, DET 2 CASUALTY RESOLUTION SPECIALIST. THE VIETNAMESE
GOVERNMENT CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF LTC LE KY, MINISTRY OF
DEFENSE, AND  MR. NGUYEN THANG LOI, MINISTRY  OF INTERIOR. ON 12
MAY 1993, LTC KY ESCORTED MR. LE DO NGOC TO THE GOVERNMENT GUEST
HOUSE. MR. NGOC SAID HE HAD NOT BEEN INTERVIEWED BY JOINT TEAMS
PREVIOUSLY.

PAGE 03 RUHQSGG5395 UNCLAS
2. SUMMARY.  THE SOURCE PROVIDED EXTREMELY LIMITED INFORMATION
CONCERNING THE SUBJECT OF U.S. SERVICEMEN WHO BECAME UNACCOUNTED
FOR IN VIETNAM THE SOURCE SAID THAT HE HAD PRACTICALLY NO
KNOWLEDGE OF SPECIFIC AMERICAN SERVICEMEN OR THEIR FATES.  THE
SOURCE PROVIDED PLAUSIBLE DETAILS OF HIS MILITARY DUTIES TO
SUPPORT THE CONCLUSION THAT HE HAD NO SIGNIFICANT INFORMATION TO
CONTRIBUTE.
3. DETAILS.
A. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE INTRODUCTION OF THE JOINT TEAM AND ITS
MISSION, MR. NGOC TOLD MR. FLANAGAN, SPEAKING IN FLUENT, CLEAR ENGLISH,
THAT HE HAD SPENT THE BETTER PART OF 20 YEARS ATTEMPTING TO FORGET EVERY
DETAIL OF THE WAR. MR. NGOC SAID THAT HE BELIEVED HE HAD ACHIEVED
SOME SUCCESS IN THIS ENDEAVOR. MR. NGOC SAID HE DID NOT RELISH THE
THOUGHT OF TRYING TO DREDGE UP PAINFUL MEMORIES OF THE WAR.  MR.
NGOC SAID THAT HE WAS WILLING TO PARTICIPATE IN THE INTERVIEW AND
WOULD GIVE HIS BEST EFFORT TO ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS. MR. NGOC ADDED
THAT HE NEVER HAD ANY CONTACT WITH ANY U.S POWS.  AT THIS POINT,
EVERYONE PRESENT AGREED THAT THE INTERVIEW WOULD BE CONDUCTED IN THE
VIETNAMESE LANGUAGE.

PAGE 04  RUHQSGG5395  UNCLAS
B. MR. NGOC SAID THAT NEAR THE END OF 1970 HE WAS SENT SOUTH TO
WORK IN THE PROPAGANDA OFFICE OF THE ENEMY PROSELYTING SECTION,
LOCATED GENERALLY IN THE REGION OF TAY NINH. MR. NGOC SAID THAT BY
THE TIME HE ARRIVED AT HIS POST, THE U.S. PRESENCE WAS ALREADY
DIMINISHING IN THE REGION. MR. NGOC SAID THAT HIS JOB WAS TO PRODUCE
PROPAGANDA PAMPHLETS AND HE NEVER HAD ANY DIRECT CONTACT WITH U.S.
POWS.  MR. NGOC SAID THAT HIS PROPAGANDA WAS AIMED  PRIMARILY
AGAINST THE REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM  ARMED FORCES (RVNAF) AND THAT HIS
SPECIFIC DUTIES WERE THOSE OF A TRANSLATOR RATHER THAN AN
INTERPRETER FOR THE ENTIRE PERIOD FROM 1970 UNTIL 1975. FOR THIS
REASON, MR. NGOC SAID THAT HE HAD NO DIRECT KNOWLEDGE OF U.S. POWS.
C. MR. NGOC SAID THAT HE SPENT ONE CAMPAIGN IN CAMBODIA FROM
1973 UNTIL 1974.  AT THAT TIME,  HE SAID, HIS OFFICE'S  OPERATIONS
CENTERED AROUND THE REGION OF BA DEN MOUNTAIN. HE SAID THAT HIS
ORGANIZATION PUSHED ON FROM THERE TO PHUOC LONG AND THEN HO CHI MINH
CITY FOR THE LIBERATION IN 1975. MR. NGOC SAID THAT THROUGHOUT THE
CAMPAIGNS HE WAS INVOLVED IN, HE WORKED  ON THE ANTI-RVNAF
PROPAGANDA PROGRAM, HAVING NO DIRECT CONTACT WITH U.S. POWS. MR.
NGOC SAID THAT HE HAD DESIRED TO LEARN MORE  ABOUT U.S.

PAGE 05 RUHQSGG5395 UNCLAS
POWS BUT THAT HE HAD NEITHER THE MEANS NOR THE OFFICIAL PURPOSE
TO DO SO.

D. MR. NGOC SAID THAT THE ENEMY  PROSELYTING SECTION WAS
SPLIT INTO THREE BRANCHES: POLICY, PROPAGANDA, AND CAMP
ADMINISTRATION. MR. NGOC SAID THAT HE WAS ASSIGNED TO THE
PROPAGANDA BRANCH AND THEIR OFFICE WAS LOCATED IN THE BA DEN
MOUNTAIN REGION. MR. NGOC SAID THAT HE  WAS AWARE OF DETENTION CAMPS,
WHICH WERE VERY MOBILE, LOCATED IN DENSE JUNGLE, CHANGING
LOCATIONS EVERY TWO OR THREE MONTHS FOR SECURITY REASONS. MR. NGOC
SAID THAT HE WOULD BE UNABLE TO ASSIST ANYONE IN LOCATING ANY OF
THE CAMPS' FORMER LOCATIONS. OTHER THAN THE GENERAL OBSERVATION
THAT HIS SECTION'S OPERATIONS WERE LOCATED IN THE BA DEN MOUNTAIN
REGION, MR. NGOC SAID THAT HE COULD PROVIDE NO FURTHER DETAILS ON
THE PHYSICAL LOCATION OF THE CAMPS.

E. MR. FLANAGAN ASKED THE QUESTION: "SINCE THE RELEASE OF U.S.
PRISONERS IN 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY LIVE AMERICANS?" MR.
NGOC RESPONDED THAT HE NEVER SAW OR HEARD OF ANY U.S. POWS  ALIVE
IN VIETNAM  AFTER 1973.

F. MR. FLANAGAN ASKED THE QUESTION: "SINCE  THE RELEASE OF
U.S. PRISONERS IN 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY 'STAY-BEHINDS'?"

PAGE 06 RUHQSGG5395  UNCLAS
MR. NGOC RESPONDED THAT HE NEVER SAW OR HEARD OF ANY U.S. STAY-
BEHINDS AFTER 1973.

G. CONCERNING WARTIME REPORTING ON U.S. PRISONERS, MR. NGOC
SAID THAT HE HAD NO KNOWLEDGE.

H. ON 12 MAY  93, WITH NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS AT HAND FOR FOR
NGOC, THE MEMBERS OF THE JOINT TEAM AGREED TO DISCONTINUE THIS
INTERVIEW. BOTH THE US AND SRV MEMBERS CONFERRED ON ADDITIONAL
QUESTIONS WHICH SHOULD BE CONSIDERED BEFORE CONCLUDING THIS
INTERVIEW.

4 . POTENTIAL LEADS OBTAINED DURING THE INTERVIEW. WHEN ASKED
ABOUT SPECIFIC PERSONS MR. NGOC SAID THAT HE HAD SOME LIMITED
PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE AND SOME HEARSAY KNOWLEDGE OF PERSONNEL WHO
WORKED IN THE DETENTION CAMPS. MR. NGOC IDENTIFIED THE FOLLOWING
PERSONNEL:

A. MR. TAM HUY, H WORKED IN A POW-HOLDING UNIT, BUT MR. NGOC
SAID HUY WAS KILLED IN 1973. MR. NGOC SAID HE BELIEVED THAT HUY
WOULD HAVE BEEN THE BEST PERSON TO SEEK FOR MIA INFORMATION.

B. MR. NGUYEN VAN BAN (NGUYEENX VAWN  BAN) ALSO KNOWN AS BA
BAN, MR. NGOC'S FIRST SUPERIOR.

//

BT

#5395

RCV10590                    00:41 06/24/93

VZCZCBT0621
RR RUEHBT
DE RUHQSGG #5396 1731902
ZNR UUUUU
R 221902Z JUN 93 ZYB
FM CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI//J2//
TO RUEKJCS/DIA WASHINGTON DC//PW-MIA//
INFO RHEHNSC/WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//OASD-ISA/PW-MIA//
RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/OCS/CCS/EAP/VLC//
RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC//OCJCS/J5/PW-MIA/J3-JOD//
RUHQHQB/USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J2/J3/J30-M//
RUEKJCS/USCINCPAC L0 WASHINGTON DC
RUEKJCS/DIA WASHINGTON DC//PW-MIA//
RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC//DEA/SEA/IB/ODO/EA/ICOG//
RUHVAAA/CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI//TAPC-PED-H//
RUEHBT/USDAO BANGKOK TH//PW-MIA//
RUEHBT/CJTFFA DET ONE BANGKOK TH
BT
UNCLAS //N03460//
FINAL SECTION or 02
MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J2//
RMKS/
C. MR. NGO DAT TAI (NGOO DATJ TAIF),  MR. NGOC'S SECOND

PAGE 02 RUHQSGG5396 UNCLAS
SUPERIOR.
D. MR.  LUU QUANG TUYEN (LWU  QUANGR TUYEENS), MR. NGOC'S LAST
SUPERIOR IMMEDIATELY BEFORE THE RELEASE OFCAMPS, THE PRISONERS IN 1973.
E. MR. NGOC SAID THAT OTHERS WHO  NIGHT KNOW ABOUT THœ FATE OF
MIAS  ARE NGUYEN HUU TRI (NGUYEENX HWUX TRIS), WHO NOW IS THE
DIRECTOR OF PETROLIMEX,  NGUYEN VAN HA (NGUYEENX VAWN  HAF), WHO WORKED
AS AN  INTERPRETER IN THE CAMPS, AND TU TRUNG AKA NGUYEN CONG TRUNG,
THE CHIEF OF THE POLITICAL OFFICE FOR MR7. MR. NGOC SAID THAT THERE
WERE MANY OTHERS WHO SHOULD KNOW MORE THAN HE ABOUT THE FATES OF US
SERVICEMEN.

 5. MATERIAL EVIDENCE: NONE. THIS SOURCE BROUGHT NO RECORDS,
NOTEBOOKS,  DIARIES, OR ANY MATERIAL EVIDENCE CONTEMPORARY T0 THE
WARTIME ERA WHICH COULD BE ASSOCIATED WITH ANY UNACCOUNTED FOR U.S.
PERSONNEL.

6.  RECOMMENDED FUTURE ACTIONS.

A. RECOMMEND NO FURTHER JOINT INTERVIEW OF THIS SOURCE UNLESS
THE VIETNAMESE OR U.S. SIDES CAN PRODUCE SPECIFIC INFORMATION OR
FURNISH MORE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS OR LEADS.

B. REQUEST THE VNOSMP ALLOW THE U.S. ACCESS TO THIS SOURCE FOR
POTENTIAL FUTURE INTERVIEW IN THE EVENT THAT SIGNIFICANT

PAGE 03 RUHQSGG5396 UNCLAS
QUESTIONS ARE DEEMED NECESSARY.
7. PERTINENT LOCATION OR DATA CHANGES: NONE.
B. COMMENTS.  AFTER THIS INTERVIEW, THE MEMBERS OF THE JOINT
TEAM  ASSESSED ALL POTENTIAL ADDITIONAL LEADS PROVIDED BY THE
SOURCE. THE CONSENSUS OF TEAM MEMBERS WAS THAT CONTINUATION OF
THIS INTERVIEW OR AN ATTEMPT TO RE-INTERVIEW THIS SOURCE SOURCE
DEPEND ON SIGNIFICANT QUESTIONS WHICH SHOULD BE ASKED PERTAINING
TO SPECIFIC INCIDENTS OR SPECIFIC QUESTIONS WHICH MIGHT LEAD TO
FINDING NEW WITNESSES OR DISCOVERING CONTEMPORARY DOCUMENTATION
WITH DETAILS ON SPECIFIC CASES.//

BT

#5396