[181822Z.OH 06/08/96] NNNN RCV10606 02:37 06/24/93 VZCZCBTO637 RR RUEHBT DE RUHQSGG #5420 1691822 ZNR UUUUU R 181822Z JUN 93 ZYB FM CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI//J2// TO RUEKJCS/DIA WASHINGTON DC//PW-MIA// INFO RHEHNSC/WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//OASD-ISA/PW-MIA// RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/OCS/CCS/œAP/VLC// RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC//OCJCS/J5/PW-MIA/J3-JOD// RUHQHQB/USCINPAC HONOLULU HI//J2/J3/J30-M// RUEKJCS/USCINCPAC LO WASHINGTON DC RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC//DEA/SEA/IB/DDO/EA/ICOG// RUHVAAA/CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI//TAPC-PED-H// RUEHBT/USDAO BANGKOK TH//PW-MIA// RUEHBT/CJTFFA DET ONE BANGKOK TH BT UNCLAS //N03460// SECTION 01 OF 02 MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J2// AMPN/SUBJ: INTERVIEW OF REQUESTED SOURCE, KHUONG XUAN QUE// REF/A/FAX/DET 2/16MAY93// AMPN/SUBJ: LIST OF PERSONS FOR INTERVIEW - SENATOR KERRY, ENTRY PAGE 02 RUHQSGG5420 UNCLAS NUMBER 7 OF 83// RMKS/1. BACKGROUND. ON 17 MAY 1993, A JOINT US/VIETNAM INTERVIEW TEAM INTERVIEWED MR. KHUONG XUAN QUE, A 51-YEAR OLD NATIVE AND CURRENT RESIDENT OF HANOI WHO WAS A CADRE OF THE ENEMY PROSELYTING SECTION OF THE B3 FRONT FROM 1965 UNTIL 1973. THE TEAM MET AT THE ANTE-BUILDING MEETING ROOM OF THE GOVERNMENT GUEST HOUSE, 2 LE THACH STREET, HOAN KIEN DISTRICT, HANOI, TO INTERVIEW SELECTED PERSONNEL, LISTED IN REFERENCE, WHO ARE BELIEVED TO BE POTENTIAL SOURCES OF INFORMATION CONCERNING U.S. PERSONNEL MISSING IN ACTION IN VIETNAM. THE U.S. CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF MR. KEITH GARY FLANAGAN, DET 2 CASUALTY RESOLUTION SPECIALIST AND PETTY OFFICER JOHN L. HARVEY, JTF-FA LINGUIST. THE VIETNAMESE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF LTC LE KY, MINISTRY OF DEFENSE; AND MR. NGUYEN THANG LOI, MINISTRY OF INTERIOR. ON 17 HAY 1993, LTC KY ESCORTED MR. QUE TO THE GOVERNMENT GUEST HOUSE. MR. QUE SAID HE HAD NOT BEEN INTERVIEWED BY JOINT TEAMS PREVIOUSLY. 2. SUMMARY. THE SOURCE PROVIDED VAGUE, LIMITED INFORMATION CONCERNING U.S. PERSONNEL WHO BECAME UNACCOUNTED FOR IN VIETNAM. THE SOURCE PROVIDED ONLY GENERAL NON-SPECIFIC STATEMENTS PAGE 03 RUHQSGG5420 UNCLAS CONCERNING HIS MILITARY ASSIGNMENTS AND EXPERIENCE TO SUPPORT THE CONCLUSION THAT HE HAD NO SIGNIFICANT INFORMATION TO CONTRIBUTE. 3. DETAILS. A. AFTER THE INTRODUCTION OF THE TEAM AND ITS MISSION WAS COMPLETE, MR. KHUONG XUAN QUE (KHWONG XUAAN QUEES), SAID THAT HE BELIEVED HE COULD BE OF VERY LITTLE ASSISTANCE TO THE TEAM AND COULD PROVIDE LITTLE OR NO INFORMATION WHICH MIGHT HELP RESOLVE SPECIFIC CASES. 8. MR. FLANAGAN ASKED THE QUESTION: "SINCE THE RELEASE OF U.S. PRISONERS IN 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY LIVE AMERICANS?" MR. QUE RESPONDED THAT TO HIS KNOWLEDGE, THERE HAVE BEEN NO POWS IN VIETNAM SINCE 1973. C. MR. FLANAGAN ASKED THE QUESTION: "SINCE THE RELEASE OF U.S. PRISONERS IN 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY 'STAY-BEHINDS'?" MR. QUE RESPONDED THAT TO HIS KNOWLEDGE, THE ONLY AMERICANS THAT HE HAD BEEN AWARE OF IN VIETNAM AFTER 1973 WERE TOURISTS. IN RESPONSE TO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, MR. QUE SAID THAT HE HAD NEVER SEEN OR MET BOBBY GARWOOD. D. CONCERNING WARTIME REPORTING ON U.S. PRISONERS WHO DIED IN CAPTIVITY OR PRISONERS WHO DIED WHILE BEING EVACUATED TO THE PAGE 04 RUHQSGG5420 UNCLAS NORTH, MR. QUE SAID HE HAD NEVER HEARD OF ANY U.S. PRISONERS WHO WERE WOUNDED AT THE TIME OF CAPTURE AND DIED BEFORE REACHING THE HOLDING LOCATIONS IN THE B3 FRONT AREA. MR. QUE SAID THAT ONLY FIELD MEDICAL PERSONNEL WOULD HAVE INFORMATION ON CAPTIVES WHO DIED DURING TREATMENT. MR. QUE SAID THERE COULD HAVE BEEN SOME U.S. PRISONERS WHO DIED ENROUTE TO A HOLDING LOCATION BUT HE DID NOT KNOW Of ANY. WHEN ASKED IF HE REMEMBERED THE NAME DELONG, MR. QUE SAID THAT HE HAD ONLY HEARD THE NAME BUT HE DID NOT REMEMBER ANY OTHER DETAILS. MR. QUE SAID THAT HE DID NOT KNOW THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF DELONG'S DEATH. E. MR. QUE SAID THAT HE RECALLED ONE U.S. PRISONER, WILLIAM SMITH, WHO DIED WHILE ON THE ROUTE TO NORTH VIETNAM MR. QUE SAID THAT TO HIS KNOWLEDGE, NO OTHER PRISONERS FROM HIS CAMP DIED ON THE WAY NORTH. MR. QUE ALSO SAID THAT HE DID NOT REMEMBER THE NAMES OF ANY OF THE OTHER PRISONERS IN THE CAMP. IN EXPLAINING THIS, MR. QUE SAID THAT IN THE COURSE OF HIS DUTIES, HE WENT IN AND OUT OF THE CAMPS RATHER QUICKLY. MR. QUE SAID HE WOULD ESCORT OTHER VIETNAMESE PERSONNEL INTO THE CAMPS AND THEN BACK OUT QUICKLY. MR. QUE SAID THAT HE DID NOT REMEMBER ANY OF THE NAMES OF ANY OF THE PERSONNEL HE ESCORTED TO THE CAMPS OR ANY OF PAGE 05 RUHQSGG5420 UNCLAS THE UNITS, TO WHICH THEY WERE ASSIGNED. THESE VIETNAMESE PERSONNEL CAME FROM A WIDE VARIETY OF UNITS AND LOCATIONS. MR. QUE SAID THAT HE DID NOT RECALL ANY OTHERS BY NAME EXCEPT FOR ONE OF THE MEDICAL PERSONNEL, DR. LE CAO DAI WHO WAS THE DIRECTOR OF HOSPITAL V211. F. MR. QUE SAID THAT HE REMEMBERED MORE DETAILS ABOUT THE DEATH OF WILLIAM SMITH. MR. QUE SAID THAT SMITH WAS IN A GROUP OF PRISONERS GOING NORTH WHEN HE DIED. MR. QUE SAID THAT HE DID NOT REMEMBER HOW MANY PRISONERS WERE IN THE GROUP. BUT HE BELIEVED THAT ALL OF THE OTHERS ARRIVED IN HANOI AND WERE REPATRIATED IN 1973. MR. QUE THEN RECALLED THAT THERE WAS A MAJOR WHO WAS AN ADVISOR; ONE HELICOPTER PILOT, A CAPTAIN NAMED MCMURRAY WHO HAD BLACK HAIR; ONE BLACK MAN, A WARRANT OFFICER OF SMALL, SLIGHT BUILD, APPROXIMATELY 1.62 OR 1.63 METERS TALL, AND WILLIAM SMITH MR. QU DESCRIBED SMITH AS 1.7 METERS TALL, 19 OR 20 YEARS OF AGE, WITH THE RANK OF PRIVATE OR PRIVATE FIRST CLASS. MR. QUE SAID THAT SMITH WAS VERY WEAK BEFORE HE SET OUT ON THE ROAD WITH THIS GROUP. MR. QUE SAID THAT SMITH WOULD NORMALLY HAVE BEEN CARRIED ON A STRETCHER, BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFICULT FOR THE MEN TO BEAR HIM ON A STRETCHER WITHOUT EXPOSING THEMSELVES PAGE 06 RUHQSGG5420 UNCLAS UNNECESSARILY. MR. QUE RECALLED THAT SMITH SUFFERED FROM DIARRHEA CONTINUOUSLY AND COULD NOT TRAVEL WELL. MR. QUE SAID THAT HIS PERSONNEL USED A GREAT DEAL OF MEDICATIONS IN TREATING SMITH TO NO AVAIL. MR. QUE SAID THAT ONE DAY IN A SECTION OF THE KONTUM REGION NEAR THE LAO BORDER, SMITH ASKED TO RELIEVE HIMSELF. MR. QUE SAID THAT A SHORT TIME LATER, SMITH FELL DOWN, AND LANDED IN A STREAM. MR. QUE SAID THAT SMITH INJURED HIMSELF DURING THE FALL AND DIED OF HIS INJURIES ON THE SPOT. MR. QUE SAID THAT TWO OR THREE OF THE U.S. PRISONERS IN THE GROUP ALSO WITNESSED THE EVENT AND SAW SMITH DIE. MR. QUE THEN CLARIFIED THAT HE WAS RELATING THE STORY AS HE HEARD IT AFTER THE FACT. MR. QUE SAID HE DID NOT REMEMBER ANY MEMBERS OF THE VIETNAMESE TEAM WHICH LED THE AMERICANS NORTH. MR. QUE SAID THAT HE DID NOT KNOW HOW ANYONE COULD LOCATE THE GRAVE SITE. MR. QUE DID SAY THAT HE REMEMBERED HEARING THAT SMITH WAS BURIED ALONGSIDE A MOUNTAINSIDE STREAM, BUT HE WOULD NOT HAZARD A GUESS AS TO THE LOCATION OF THE BURIAL. MR. QUE RECALLED THAT SMITH DIED SOMETIME DURING THE RAINY SEASON. S. MR. QUE RECALLED THAT NORMALLY THERE WERE ONLY FOUR OR // BT #5420 NNNN RCV10607 01:40 06/24/93 VZCZCBTO638 RR RUEHBT DE RUHQSGG #5421 1 691822 ZNR UUUUU R 181822Z JUN 93 ZYB FM CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI//J2// TO RUEKJCS/DIA WASHINGTON DC//PW-MIA// INFO RHEHNSC/WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//OASD-ISA/PW-MIA// RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/OCS/CCS/EAP/VLC// RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGT ON DC//OCJCS/J5/PW-MIA/J3-JOD// RUHQHQB/USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J2/J3/J30-M// RUEKJCS/USCINCPAC LO WASHINGTON DC RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC//DEA/SEA/IB/DDO/EA/ICOG RUHVAAA/CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI//TAPC-PED-H RUEHBT/USDAO BANGKOK TH//PW-MIA// RUEHBJ/CJTFFA DET ONE BANGKOK TH BT UNCLAS //N03460// FINAL SECTION OF 02 MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J2// RMKS/ FIVE U.S. PRISONERS IN A HOLDING CAMP AT ANY GIVEN TINE. MR. QUE SAID THAT THERE WERE RECORDS SUCH AS DEATH CERTIFICATES FOR BOTH PAGE 02 RUHQSGG5421 UNCLAS AMERICAN AND VIETNAMESE PRISONERS, BUT HE WOULD NOT KNOW WHERE TO LOOK FOR SUCH RECORDS TODAY. MR. QUE SAID THAT FOR EACH CASE, WHATEVER THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF DEATH, WHOEVER THE WITNESSES WERE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE WITNESSES WERE DOCTORS, CAMP PERSONNEL, GUARDS, OR EVEN U.S. PRISONERS, THE WITNESSES WERE REQUIRED TO PRODUCE A STATEMENT CONCERNING THE DEATH. A STATEMENT WAS REQUIRED REGARDLESS OF THE NUMBER OF WITNESSES. H. AFTER RECALLING THE EVENTS SURROUNDING THE DEATH OF SMITH, MR. QUE SAID THAT HE VAGUELY RECALLED HEARSAY OF THE DEATHS OF DELONG AND OLSEN "BETTY". MR. QUE SAID THAT HE HAD NO DETAILS OF THESE TWO DEATHS. I. MR. QUE SAID THAT HE DID NOT REMEMBER ANY OF THE CAMP DESIGNATORS OR DISTRICT DESIGNATORS FOR THE AREAS WHERE HE WAS STATIONED IN THE B3 FRONT REGION. MR. QUE SAID HE DID NOT REMEMBER HOW TO LOCATE ANY OF THE ENCAMPMENTS AND EXPLAINED THAT ALL ACCESSES TO THE CAMPS WERE BY SHORT, POINT-TO-POINT, LOCAL ROUTES DIRECTED BY LOCAL INHABITANTS. MR. QUE ADDED THAT EVEN CAMP PERSONNEL FREQUENTLY GOT LOST. MR. QUE SAID THAT CAMP CAMOUFLAGE TECHNIQUES WERE EXCELLENT AND MADE CAMPS DIFFICULT TO FIND. PAGE 03 RUHQSGG5421 UNCLAS J. ON 17 MAY 93, WITH NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS AT HAND FOR MR. QUE, THE MEMBERS OF THE JOINT TEAM AGREED TO DISCONTINUE THIS INTERVIEW. BOTH THE US AND SRV MEMBERS CONFERRED ON ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS WHICH SHOULD BE CONSIDERED BEFORE CONCLUDING THIS INTERVIEW. 4. POTENTIAL LEADS OBTAINED DURING THE INTERVIEW. MR. QUE SAID THAT THERE WERE MANY OTHERS WHO SHOULD KNOW MUCH MORE THAN HE ABOUT THE FATES OF U.S. SERVICEMEN. A. MR. QUE RECALLED DR. LE CAO DAI, FORMER DIRECTOR OF HOSPITAL V211, WHO SHOULD HAVE INFORMATION ON PRISONERS WHO RECEIVED MEDICAL TREATMENT. B. MR. QUE RECOMMENDED THAT THE TEAM ASK SOMEONE WHO WORKED IN THE CAMP ABOUT DELONG'S FATE. AS AN EXAMPLE, MR. QUE SAID THAT MR. NGUYEN PHOI COULD POSSIBLY HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THIS MATTER C. MR. QUE SAID THAT THE ONE PERSON WHO WOULD HAVE KNOWN ALL THE DETAILS ABOUT DELONG WAS MR. DUONG HONG. MR. QUE THEN SAID THAT HONG HAD BEEN FLUENT IN BOTH ENGLISH AND FRENCH AND HAD WORKED CLOSELY WITH U.S. PRISONERS. MR. QUE SAID THAT HONG HIMSELF HAD BECOME AN MIA IN EITHER 1972 OR 1972. MR. QUE SAID PAGE 04 RUHQSGG5421 UNCLAS THAT HE AND OTHERS HAD BEEN UNABLE TO LOCATE HONG'S GRAVE. 5. MATERIAL EVIDENCE: NONE. THIS SOURCE BROUGHT NO RECORDS NOTEBOOKS, DIARIES, OR ANY MATERIAL EVIDENCE CONTEMPORARY TO THE WARTIME ERA WHICH COULD BE ASSOCIATED WITH ANY UNACCOUNTED FOR U.S. PERSONNEL. THIS SOURCE SAID THAT HE HAD NO MATERIAL EVIDENCE, NOTES, RECORDS, OR DIARIES FROM THE WARTIME. 6. RECOMMEND FUTURE ACTIONS. A. RECOMMEND THAT THIS SOURCE BE REINTERVIEWED AT A LATER DATE ONLY AFTER MORE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS OR LEADS CAN BE DEVELOPED. B. REQUEST THE VNOSMP ALLOW THE U.S. ACCESS TO THIS SOURCE FOR POTENTIAL FUTURE INTERVIEW IN THE EVENT THAT SIGNIFICANT SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ARE DEEMED NECESSARY. 7. PERTINENT LOCATION OR DATA CHANGES: NONE. 8. COMMENTS A. AFTER THIS INTERVIEW, THE MEMBERS OF THE JOINT TEAM ASSESSED ALL POTENTIAL ADDITIONAL LEADS PROVIDED BY THE SOURCE. THE CONSENSUS OF TEAM MEMBERS WAS THAT CONTINUATION OF THIS INTERVIEW OR AN ATTEMPT TO RE-INTERVIEW THIS SOURCE WOULD DEPEND ON SIGNIFICANT QUESTIONS WHICH SHOULD BE ASKED PERTAINING TO PAGE 05 RUHQSGG5421 UNCLAS SPECIFIC INCIDENTS OR SPECIFIC QUESTIONS WHICH MIGHT LEAD TO FINDING NEW WITNESSES OR DISCOVERING CONTEMPORARY DOCUMENTATION WITH DETAILS ON SPECIFIC CASES. B. THIS SOURCE SPOKE ENGLISH BUT HE DID NOT ENGAGE IN ANY SIDE CONVERSATIONS WITH CRS BEFORE, DURING OR AFTER THE INTERVIEW. THE SOURCE SEEMED TO VIEW QUESTIONS FIELDED BY CRS WITH AMUSEMENT. THE SOURCE WAS MORE ANIMATED THAN ANY OF THE OTHER SOURCES INTERVIEWED IN HANOI, USED A WIDER VARIETY OF GESTURES, AND WAS VERY ANIMATED WHILE APPEARING TO TRY TO APPEAR SUBDUED IN HIS RESPONSES. AS THE INTERVIEW PROGRESSED, THE SOURCE TENDED TO CONTRADICT EARLIER STATEMENTS, OR EMBELLISH EARLIER STATEMENTS, POSSIBLE AS HE REMEMBERED MORE DETAILS THAT HE DID NOT RECALL DURING EARLIER QUESTIONS FIELDED BY CRS.// BT #5422