[180022Z.OH 07/14/96]
    
ADMINISTRATIVE MESSAGE    ROUTINE

R 180022Z OCT 93 ZYB PSN 810345P21
FM CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI//32//
TO SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//USDP: RSA//
INFO WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC
RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/EAP/VLC/CCS/OCS//
JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC//J5//
USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J2/J3/J3O-M//
USCINCPAC LO WASHINGTON DC
CIA WASHINGTON DC//DEA/SEA/IB/DDO/EA/ICOG//
DIA WASHINGTON-DC
CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI//TAPC-PED-H//
RUEHBT/USDAO BANGKOK TM//PW-MIA//
RUEHBT/CJTFFA DET ONE BANGKOK TH
UNCLAS //N03460//
MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J252//
SUBJ/INTERVIEW OF REQUESTED SOURCE, NGUYEN VAN THUONG//
REF/A/FAX/CJTFFA DET TWO HANOI/160CT93//
THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS A VERBATIM TRANSCRIPTION OF AN ORAL
HISTORY PROGRAM FIELD REPORT.//

RMKS/1. BACKGROUND- ON 12 MAY 1993, DET 2, JOINT TASK FORCE FULL
ACCOUNTING RESEARCHER/HISTORIAN [XXXX][XXXX][XXXX]. INTERVIEWED
RETIRED SENIOR COLONEL (SRCOL) NGUYEN VAN THUONG ((NGUYEENX VAWN
THUOWNGF)). A 74 YOA RESIDENT OF LY NHAN DISTRICT, NAM HA
PROVINCE. MR. THUONG, FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE ENEMY PROSELYTING
DEPARTMENT IN HANOI. THE INTERVIEW TOOK PLACE AT LY NHAN
DISTRICT HEADQUARTERS.

2. SUMMARY. DURING THE VIETNAM WAR SRCOL VAN THUONG WAS A
DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT ((CUC DICH
VAN//EPD)) OF THE GENERAL POLITICAL DIRECTORATE (GPD) OF THE
PEOPLE'S ARMY OF VIETNAM (PAVN) HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR
DIRECTING PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES. HE HAD LITTLE DIRECT CONTACT
WITH U.S. POWS; HOWEVER, HE WAS FAMILIAR WITH PAVN'S POLICIES
AND PROCEDURES CONCERNING INTERROGATION AND INDOCTRINATION OF
U.S. POWS. SRCOL THUONG DISCUSSED PRISONER OF WAR (POW) CAMPS
IN VIETNAM AND PAVN'S POLICIES AND PROCEDURES FOR HANDLING U.S
POWS

                             Page 1

CAPTURED IN LAOS DURING THE VIETNAM WAR. HE SAID HANOI NEVER
PASSED U.S. POWS TO THE SOVIET UNION OR CHINA. HE ALSO SAID
HANOI RELEASED ALL U.S. POWS IT WAS HOLDING IN 1973. HE MET
CONVICTED COLLABORATOR [XXXX][XXXX]  SEVERAL TIMES DURING THE
1970'S. HE BELIEVED THE FORMER USMC PRIVATE [XXXX] WAS THE
ONLY AMERICAN WHO VOLUNTARILY STAYED IN VIETNAM AFTER U.S.
POWS WERE RELEASED IN EARLY 1973. SRCOL THUONG SAID HE HELPED
IDENTIFY OUTDATED RECORDS RELATED TO THE EPD'S WARTIME
PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES AND SENT THEM FOR DESTRUCTION IN ABOUT
1979. HE BELIEVED THE EPD DESTROYED MOST TYPES OF RECORDS
CONCERNING POWS AFTER THE WAR.

3. DETAILS. SRCOL THUONG PROVIDED THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION:

A. SRCOL THUONG SAID HIS MAIN MISSION AS A DEPUTY
DIRECTOR OF THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT WAS TO DIRECT
PROPAGANDA CAMPAIGNS AGAINST ENEMY FORCES. HIS DUTIES
INCLUDED DEVELOPING POLICY AND ISSUING GUIDANCE TO PAVN
UNITS CONCERNING THE HANDLING, INTERROGATION. AND
INDOCTRINATION OF U.S. POW'S. HE DID NOT HAVE DIRECT
CONTACT WITH U.S. POWS AND HE WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THE
DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS AND MANAGEMENT OF INDIVIDUAL POW
CAMPS.

B. THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT IN HANOI
ESTABLISHED POLICY FOR PROSELYTING ELEMENTS AT THE
MILITARY REGION LEVEL. EACH REGION PLANNED AND CONDUCTED
ITS OWN SPECIFIC OPERATIONS WITHIN THE SCOPE OF THE EPD'S
POLICY DIRECTIVES.

C. WHEN PROSELYTING PERSONNEL AT MILITARY REGION RECEIVED
PRISONERS THEY REPORTED BASIC INFORMATION. SUCH AS THE NUMBER
OF POWS AND WHEN THEY WERE CAPTURED, TO THE ENEMY PROSELYTING
DEPARTMENT IN HANOI. SRCOL THUONG SAID LITTLE INFORMATION WAS
TRANSMITTED ELECTRONICALLY, BECAUSE MOST COMMUNICATIONS
EQUIPMENT FOR REPORTING TO HIGHER HEADQUARTERS WAS RESERVED FOR
OPERATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS. HOWEVER, WHEN THE GOVERNMENT
REALIZED THE POLITICAL IMPORTANCE OF THE ENEMY PROSELYTING
MISSION, ENEMY PROSELYTING ELEMENTS WERE ALSO ABLE TO USE THIS
EQUIPMENT. THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT IN HANOI WAS KEPT
INFORMED ABOUT THE NUMBERS OF PRISONERS IN THE MILITARY REGION
COMMANDS IN SOUTH VIETNAM; HOWEVER, SRCOL THUONG CLAIMED THESE
NUMBERS USUALLY WERE NOT EXACT. HE SAID ENEMY PROSELYTING
DEPARTMENT OFFICIALS IN HANOI ONLY NEEDED TO KNOW WHEN AND HOW
MANY PRISONERS THE REGIONAL COMMANDS WERE SENDING NORTH.

D. SRCOL THUONG EXPLAINED THAT VIETNAM'S PRISON CAMP SYSTEM
DEVELOPED GRADUALLY. WHEN PAVN CAPTURED THE FIRST U.S. POWS,
IT DID NOT HAVE PRISONS EXCLUSIVELY FOR PRISONERS OF WAR, OR
A CENTRAL CONSOLIDATED PRISONER OF WAR CAMP SYSTEM. IN THE
EARLY DAYS OF THE WAR SOME REGIONAL COMMANDS MAINTAINED
CONTROL OF PRISONERS. AS THE WAR PROGRESSED, IN ORDER TO
LIGHTEN THE LOAD OF PAVN ORGANIZATIONS IN THE SOUTH AND TO
ENSURE PRISONER SAFETY, PAVN ADOPTED A POLICY TO MOVE U.S.
PRISONERS FROM SOUTHERN AREAS SUCH AS B.1 (MR-5) AND B.3
(WESTERN HIGHLANDS) FRONTS TO PRISON

                          Page 2

CAMPS IN NORTH VIETNAM. SRCOL THUONG-SUGGESTED THAT NGO DAT
TAI (NGOO DATJ TAIF) WOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT PRISON CAMPS IN B.1
FRONT. KHUONG XUAN QUE (KHWONG XUAANS QUEES) WOULD KNOW ABOUT
CAMPS IN B.3 FRONT, AND NGUYEN BA MINH (NGUYEENX BAS MINH)
WOULD KNOW ABOUT CAMPS IN B.4 FRONT (SEE PARA. 7.A., BELOW).

E. ACCORDING TO SRCOL THUONG, PAVN OPERATED THREE TYPES OF
CAMPS IN NORTH VIETNAM: WELL EQUIPPED MAIN CAMPS, TEMPORARY
CAMPS, AND CAMPS FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES. MAIN CAMPS WERE WELL
ORGANIZED FACILITIES THAT HAD ADMINISTRATIVE, SECURITY, AND
SUPPORT SECTIONS AND REMAINED IN USE FOR A LONG TIME. HE CITED
HAO LO ((HANOI HILTON)) AS AN EXAMPLE OF A MAIN CAMP. HE SAID IT
COULD BE MISLEADING TO REFER TO THE TEMPORARY CAMPS AS POW CAMPS.
IN SOME CASES THEY WERE REST STOPS ENROUTE TO THE MAIN CAMPS. IN
OTHERS THEY WERE USED FOR BRIEF PERIODS. HE CITED THE SON TAY
POW CAMP AND BA SAO ((AKA NAM HA)) AS EXAMPLES OF A TEMPORARY
CAMP. HE EXPLAINED THAT FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES PAVN OCCASIONALLY
PUBLICIZED THE FACT THAT IT PUT U.S. POWS AT A LOCATION THE U.S.
HAD ANNOUNCED IT WAS GOING TO BOMB--FOR EXAMPLE, THE YEN PHU
THERMAL POWER PLANT IN HANOI. PAVN ALSO ISOLATED STUBBORN
PRISONERS; HOWEVER, HE SAID, ANY FACILITY USED FOR THIS PURPOSE
WAS USED ONLY TEMPORARILY. ((COMMENT: THE SMALL COMPOUND BEHIND
NO. 4 LY NAM DE STREET. WHICH RETURNED U.S. POWS CALLED CAMP
ALCATRAZ, WAS USED TO ISOLATE THE STRONGEST RESISTERS. OTHER
VIETNAMESE SOURCES DESCRIBED THIS COMPOUND AS A SATELLITE OF THE
MAIN PRISON CAMP AT 17 LY NAM DE STREET)). SRCOL THUONG CLAIMED
THERE WERE NO CAMPS, INCLUDING DUONG THANH (DWONGF THANHF) AND
THANH LIET (THANH LIEETJ), USED EXCLUSIVELY FOR ISOLATION. SRCOL
THUONG SAID GROUP 875 ADMINISTRATED SEPARATE POW CAMPS FOR U.S.
AND REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM ARMED FORCES (RVNAF) PRISONERS IN NORTH
VIETNAM FROM ABOUT APRIL 1972 UNTIL ABOUT DECEMBER 1974. MOST
RVNAF PRISONERS IN THE NORTH WERE OFFICERS CAPTURED IN B.4
((NORTHERN  QUANG TRI PROVINCE)) AND B.5 ((TRI-THIEN-HUE))
FRONTS OF SOUTH VIETNAM AND IN LAOS. HE SAID PAVN RELEASED
MOST RVNAF ENLISTED POWS AND MANY JUNIOR OFFICERS SHORTLY
AFTER CAPTURE. HE SAID//

MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J252//
SUBJ/INTERVIEW OF REQUESTED SOURCE, NGUYEN VAN THUONG//

RMKS/ PAVN SENT JUNIOR RVNAF PERSONNEL AND THOSE CAPTURED
IN AREAS FURTHER SOUTH TO HANOI ONLY IF THERE WAS A
SPECIAL REASON TO DO SO.

F. MOVEMENT OF U.S. POWS FROM SOUTH VIETNAM AND LAOS TO
NORTH VIETNAM. SRCOL THUONG SAID EACH MILITARY REGION OR FRONT
COMMAND IN SOUTH VIETNAM WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR MOVING U.S. POWS
CAPTURED IN THE COMMAND TO NORTH VIETNAM. IN SOME INSTANCES
THE COMMAND MOVED THE POW TO THE NEAREST MILITARY STATION OF GROUP

                             Page 3

559 ON THE LAO-VIETNAM BORDER AND TURNED THE POW OVER TO GROUP
559 FOR MOVEMENT TO NORTH VIETNAM. ((FIELD COMMENT: GROUP 559
ADMINISTERED THE HO CHI MINH TRAIL TRANSPORTATION AND
COMMUNICATION NETWORK FROM VINH CITY, NVN. THROUGH SOUTHERN
LAOS AND CAMBODIA, TO BORDER CROSSING POINTS SERVING EACH OF
THE FRONT COMMANDS IN SOUTH VIETNAM.)) IN OTHER INSTANCES
MEMBERS OF THE COMMAND ESCORTED U.S. POWS ALL THE WAY TO NORTH
VIETNAM. PAVN COMMANDS IN LAOS FOLLOWED THE SAME PROCESS.
BEFORE STARTING THE JOURNEY NORTH, THE FIELD COMMAND NOTIFIED
THE PAVN HIGH COMMAND IN HANOI HOW MANY PRISONERS WERE ON THE
WAY; BUT SELDOM PROVIDED OTHER DETAILS. WHEN THE ESCORTS
ARRIVED NEAR VINH CITY, THE END OF STRATEGIC ROUTE 559. THEY
CONTACTED THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT IN HANOI TO RECEIVE
FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS. BEFORE APRIL 1972, WHEN THE ESCORTS
REACHED HANOI THEY AGAIN CONTACTED THE EPD. AFTER APRIL 1972
THEY CONTACTED GROUP 875. BEFORE APRIL 1972 THE EPD OFTEN
DIRECTED THE ESCORTS TO TAKE THE POWS DIRECTLY TO HAO LO
((HOAR LOF)) PRISON, AKA THE HANOI HILTON. AND SOMETIMES TO
THE PRISON CAMP AT NGA TU SO ((NGAX  TUW SOWR)). ((COMMENT:
U.S. POWS CALLED IT THE ZOO. LOCATED IN A PAVN FILM STUDIO IN
THE SOUTHWEST OUTSKIRTS OF HANOI AT COORD 2l0000N/1054930E,
UTM 48QWJ85732217.)) AFTER APRIL 1972 THE ESCORTS OFTEN
STOPPED FIRST AT THE GROUP 875 DUTY OFFICE AT 3 DUONG THANH
STREET TO RECEIVE INSTRUCTIONS ON WHERE TO TAKE THE POWS.
SRCOL THUONG EXPLAINED THAT ALTHOUGH PAVN COMMANDS IN SOUTH
VIETNAM AND LAOS TYPICALLY FOLLOWED THE ABOVE STEPS WHEN
MOVING A U.S. POW TO NORTH VIETNAM, THE PROCESS WAS FLEXIBLE
AND DETAILS COULD EASILY VARY IN ANY SPECIFIC CASE.

G. SRCOL THUONG OFFERED NAMES OF THE FOLLOWING
INDIVIDUALS HE BELIEVED COULD, IF STILL ALIVE, PROVIDE"
INFORMATION ON WARTIME POW CAMPS:

(1) VO VAN THOI ((VOX VAWN THOWIF)).

(2) PHAM HUAN ((PHAM HUAANS)). ((COMMENT: DET 2
RESEARCH/HISTORIAN INTERVIEWED RETIRED MAJOR PHAM VAN HUAN IN
HANOI ON '2 JUNE 1992. HE WAS THE SUPPLY OFFICER FOR GROUP
875.))

(3) VU QUAN ((VUX QUAAN)). ((COMMENT: NUMBER 12 ON THE LIST
OF 83 INTERVIEW SUBJECTS. DET 2 ORAL HISTORY PERSONNEL
INTERVIEWED THIS INDIVIDUAL ON 18 MAY 93.))

(4) BUI THIEN NGON ((BUIF THIEENJ NGOON)). ((COMMENT:
CURRENTLY THE SRV MINISTER OF INTERIOR.))

(5) NGUYEN MINH Y ((NGUYEENX MINH Y)). ((DET 2
RESEARCH/HISTORIAN INTERVIEWED THIS COLONEL Y IN HANOI ON 3
AND 10 JUNE 1992.))

(6) NGO DAT TAI ((NGOO DDATJ TAIF)), AKA MUOI TAI
((MUOWIF TAIF)). SRCOL THUONG SUGGESTED TAI COULD KNOW ABOUT
CAMPS IN B.1 FRONT ((MILITARY REGION FIVE)). ((COMMENT:
NUMBER 3 ON THE LIST OF 83 INTERVIEW SUBJECTS.))

(7) NGUYEN BA MINH ((NGUYEN BAF MINH)). ALTHOUGH
MINH KNEW ABOUT POW CAMPS IN B.4 FRONT ((MILITARY REGION
TRI-THIEN-HUE)), HE IS DECEASED. ((COMMENT: NUMBER 22
ON LIST OF 83

                       Page 4

INTERVIEW SUBJECTS. VNOSMP SPECIALISTS INFORMED US THAT
MESSRS TO DIEU, CHU HOANG BICH. AND NGO TAI HAVE CONFIRMED
NGUYEN BA MINH IS DEAD.))

(8) A DECEASED CADRE OF B.3 FRONT WHOSE WIFE
IS A MEDICAL DOCTOR LIVING IN NINH BINH. SRCOL THUONG
COULD NOT RECALL DECEASED CADRE'S NAME.

(9) CHU HONG BICH ((CHU HONGF BICHS)), AKA CHU
HOANG BICH ((CHU HOANGF BICHS)). LIVES IN NAM DONG QUARTER
OF HANOI. DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE ENEMY PROSELYTING
DEPARTMENT. MIGHT KNOW ABOUT POW CAMPS IN THE HANOI AREA.
((COMMENT: NUMBER 2 ON LIST OF 83 INTERVIEW SUBJECTS. DET 2
PERSONNEL INTERVIEWED HIM ON 12 MAY 1993.))

(10) PHAM TAM ((PHAMJ TAAM)). A DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF
THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT. CURRENTLY LIVES IN
THE VINH HO ((VINHX HOOF)) COLLECTIVE HOUSING AREA,
HANOI.

(11) KHUONG XUAN QUE. ((COMMENT: łNUMBER 7 ON THE LIST
OF 83 INTERVIEW SUBJECTS. DET 2 INTERVIEWED\ON 25 MAY 93.))

H. ACCORDING TO SRCOL THUONG, DURING THE WAR THE
ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT HAD THE FOLLOWING TYPES OF
DOCUMENTS CONCERNING POWS:

(1) POLICY RELATED TO POW'S INCLUDING HISTORY BOOKS,
BOOKS FOR INDOCTRINATING PAVN PERSONNEL ON POW
PROCEDURES, AND POW INDOCTRINATION LESSONS. THE
ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT DID NOT RETAIN THESE
TYPES OF DOCUMENTS AFTER THE WAR.

(2) LISTS OF POWS. SRCOL THUONG BELIEVED THE
ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT RETAINED THESE
LISTS AFTER THE WAR.

(3) LISTS OF PRISONERS WHO DIED IN CAPTIVITY AND
RECORDS OF MEDICAL TREATMENT
RECEIVED-BY-INDIVIDUAL POWS. SRCOL THUONG NOTED
THAT MOST POWS WHO DIED IN THE PRISONS, DIED FROM
BATTLE WOUNDS. SRCOL THUONG BELIEVED THE ENEMY
PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT DID NOT KEEP THESE AND MANY
OTHER TYPES OF DOCUMENTS AFTER THE WAR.

(4) SRCOL THUONG CLAIMED THAT VIETNAM DID NOT RETAIN
MANY TYPES OF PRISONER RECORDS BECAUSE (1) THE WAR WAS OVER
AND, VIETNAM HAD RETURNED ALL AMERICAN PRISONERS TO U.S.
CONTROL IN 1973, AND (2) IN 1978-1979 VIETNAM REDUCED
ITS DOCUMENT HOLDINGS AS A PRECAUTION AGAINST LOSING
THEM IF THE CONFLICT WITH CHINA EXPANDED TO HANOI.
SRCOL THUONG CLAIMED THAT THIS TYPE OF HOLDINGS
REDUCTION PROCEDURE TOOK PLACE NOT ONLY IN THE ENEMY
PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT BUT IN MANY OTHER AGENCIES AS WELL,
AND THAT HE HAD PERSONALLY HELPED TRANSPORT DOCUMENTS TO
DESTRUCT FACILITIES.

I. SRCOL THUONG SAID THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT DID
//

MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J252//
SUBJ/INTERVIEW OF REQUESTED SOURCE, NGUYEN VAN THUONG//

                      Page 5

RMKS/

NOT KEEP RECORDS CONCERNING AMERICANS WHO WERE KILLED IN
COMBAT OPERATIONS. HE EXPLAINED THE ENEMY PROSELYTING
DEPARTMENT HAD NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THESE PERSONS  BECAUSE
THEY WERE DEAD. HE SAID THE ENEMY PROSELYTING  DEPARTMENT WAS
NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR AND DID NOT COLLECT  DOCUMENTS AND
PERSONAL EFFECTS OF U.S. SOLDIERS KILLED ON  THE BATTLEFIELD.
THE ONLY ITEMS OF THIS SORT THAT FIELD  UNITS SENT TO THE
ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT WERE ITEMS  WHICH COULD BE
DISPLAYED IN MUSEUMS OR THAT HAD  PROPAGANDA VALUE. SRCOL
THUONG CLAIMED THAT THEY  DISCARDED THE LATTER CATEGORY OF
ITEMS AFTER THEY HAD  SERVED THEIR PURPOSE.

J. WHEN ASKED TO COMMENT ON THE CASE OF
[XXXX][XXXXX][XXXX](CASE 0087-2-02), WHO WAS CAPTURED IN
NORTHERN LAOS AND HELD  FOR THREE YEARS AT DIEN BIEN PHU
BEFORE BEING MOVED TO HANOI,  SRCOL THUONG CLAIMED NOT TO BE
FAMILIAR WITH THE SPECIFIC  CASE CIRCUMSTANCES. HE DID.
HOWEVER. COMMENT THAT PAVN COULD  HAVE KEPT SUCH A PRISONER
AS A FORM OF ASSISTANCE TO ITS LAO  ALLIES WHO LACKED THE
RESOURCES TO ADEQUATELY CARE FOR A U.S.  POW. SRCOL THUONG
SPECULATED THAT IN SUCH A SITUATION. PAVN  WOULD HAVE KEPT
THE POW AT A SITE  SUCH AS DIEN BIEN PHU.  NEAR THE
LAO-VIETNAM BORDER  WHERE THE LAO COULD STILL  MAINTAIN SOME
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE POW.

K. CONCERNING THE LAO PRISON CAMP AT SAM NUA (SAAMF NWA),
IN LAOS,  SRCOL THUONG SAID THE PAVN HAD MILITARY ADVISORS
STATIONED THERE. PAVN ALSO HAD SOME ENEMY PROSELYTING
ADVISORS IN LAOS, BUT THEY WORKED AT THE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT
LEVEL AND WEREN'T DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN POW CAMP OPERATIONS.

L. INTERVIEWER ASKED SRCOL THUONG TO COMMENT ON THE
PROCEDURE FOR MOVING RETURNEE LCDR [XXXX] (REFNO 1982) AND
THREE RVNAF OFFICERS CAPTURED IN QUANG TRI PROVINCE IN EARLY
1973 TO HANOI. SRCOL THUONG SAID HE DID NOT RECALL THIS CASE. HE
SAID HE RECALLED ONLY A FEW CASES INVOLVING RETURNEES WHO HAD
CONTRIBUTED TO THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT'S PROPAGANDA
EFFORT. HE SAID HE HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF REFNO 9950, A U.S.
ARMY DESERTER WHO VOLUNTARILY REMAINED WITH COMMUNIST FORCES AT
HEADQUARTERS B.2 FRONT IN SOUTH VIETNAM AFTER U.S. POWS WERE
RELEASED IN 1973 HE SAID THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT
CONSIDERED ONLY TWO AMERICANS IN NORTH VIETNAM TO BE
RALLIERS: REFNO 1563. WHO WAS RELEASED EARLY ((17 AUG 70)),
AND PVT [XXXX].

M. SRCOL THUONG SAID PVT [XXXX] WAS THE ONLY AMERICAN
SERVICEMAN WHO STAYED IN VIETNAM AFTER THE POW EXCHANGES IN
1973. SRCOL THUONG EXPLAINED THAT BECAUSE PVT [XXXX] WENT OVER
TO THE VIETNAMESE SIDE. PVT [XXXX] AND VIETNAMESE AUTHORITIES
BELIEVED THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WOULD PROSECUTE PVT [XXXX] IF
HE RETURNED

TO AMERICA. PVT [XXXX] ASKED PERMISSION TO REMAIN IN VIETNAM
VOLUNTARILY. HE WAS NOT A PRISONER. SRCOL THUONG EXPLAINED THAT

                            Page 6


WHEN PVT [XXXX] FULFILLED HIS PURPOSE IN THE SOUTH, AND SINCE
THE DEPARTMENT CONSIDERED HIM TO BE A MEMBER OF PAVN, THE
ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT MOVED PVT [XXXX] TO NORTH
VIETNAM. SRCOL THUONG  DID NOT RECALL WHERE PVT [XXXX]
LIVED IN HANOI, OR ELSEWHERE. SRCOL THUONG SAID THAT
AFTER PVT [XXXX] DECIDED TO RETURN TO THE U.S. HE WAS
NEVER KEPT UNDER GUARD OR IN A PRISON CAMP. SRCOL THUONG
DID NOT REMEMBER WHETHER MR. [XXXX] HAD EVER VISITED THE
PAVN PUBLISHING HOUSE ON LY NAM DE STREET, LIVED AT CAMP
TRAI TRE, OR WORKED OR LIVED IN GIA LAM.

N. SRCOL THUONG SAID HE MET PVT [XXXX] SEVERAL TIMES
DURING SOCIAL VISITS TO THE OFFICE OF GROUP 875 AT NUMBER 3
DUONG THANH STREET,  IN HANOI. HE OBSERVED THAT PVT [XXXX]
HAD A GOOD DISPOSITION. PVT [XXXX] WAS FREE TO COME AND GO AS
HE PLEASED. THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT COULD NOT FIND
WORK IN HANOI THAT PVT [XXXX] COULD PERFORM SUCCESSFULLY.
ACCORDING TO SRCOL THUONG, ALTHOUGH PVT [XXXX] REQUIRED NO
TRANSLATOR DURING HIS TIME WITH THE ENEMY PROSELYTING
DEPARTMENT, HIS VIETNAMESE LANGUAGE SKILLS WERE NOT GOOD
ENOUGH TO TRANSLATE NEWSPAPERS, ONE OF HIS ASSIGNED TASKS.
SRCOL THUONG INSISTED THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT WOULD
NEVER HAVE EMPLOYED PVT TO TRANSLATE CAPTURED U.S. DOCUMENTS
OR OTHER SENSITIVE DOCUMENTS. SRCOL THUONG SUGGESTED THAT
NGUYEN THUC DAI (NGUYEENX THWCS DAIJ), WHOM HE SAID IS
DECEASED, WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD SOURCE OF INFORMATION ON PVT
[XXXX].

O. SINCE SRCOL THUONG DID NOT WORK AT THE OFFICE OF
GROUP 875 AT NUMBER THREE DUONG THANH STREET, HE DID
NOT KNOW WHETHER RUSSIANS OR OTHER FOREIGNERS
FREQUENTED THE BUILDING. SRCOL THUONG WAS NOT CERTAIN
WHETHER THE GROUP  875 OFFICE AT NUMBER DUONG THANH STREET
HAD A RECEPTIONIST OFFICE OR NOT.

P. IN RESPONSE TO THE INTERVIEWER'S QUERIES, SRCOL THUONG
SAID THAT VIETNAM HAD NEVER SENT U.S. PRISONERS TO THE SOVIET
UNION OR CHINA. HE INSISTED THAT HAD THIS TYPE OF THING EVER
OCCURRED, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN A POSITION TO KNOW ABOUT IT.

Q. SRCOL THUONG SAID THE INTELLIGENCE DEPARTMENT ((CUBJ
TINHF BAOS)) EXPLOITED PRISONERS FOR MILITARY INFORMATION IN
IMMEDIATE SUPPORT OF TACTICAL OPERATIONS. IF THE SOVIETS OR
THE CHINESE SAID THEY WANTED INFORMATION FROM A PRISONER, THE
VIETNAMESE WOULD ASK A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT LATER. HOWEVER,
THE SOVIETS AND CHINESE WERE NEVER ALLOWED TO DIRECTLY
QUESTION A U.S. POW.

4. CORRELATIONS TO EXISTING POW/MIA CASES. NONE.

5. POTENTIAL LEADS.

A. VO VAN THOI ((VOX VAWN THOWIF)).

B. PHAM HUAN ((PHAM HUAANS)). ((COMMENT: DET 2
RESEARCH/HISTORIAN INTERVIEWED RETIRED MAJOR PHAM VAN HUAN IN
HANOI ON 2 JUNE 1992.  HE WAS THE SUPPLY OFFICER FOR GROUP
875.))

C. VU QUAN ((VUX QUAAN)). ((COMMENT: NUMBER 12 ON THE LIST

                           Page 7

OF 83 INTERVIEW SUBJECTS. DET 2 ORAL HISTORY PERSONNEL
INTERVIEWED THIS INDIVIDUAL ON 18 MAY 93.))

D. BUI THIEN NGON ((BUI THIEENJ NGOON)). ((COMMENT: CURRENTLY
THE SRV MINISTER OF INTERIOR.))

E. NGUYEN MINH Y ((NGUYEENX MINH Y)). ((DET 2
RESEARCH/HISTORIAN INTERVIEWED THIS COLONEL Y IN HANOI ON 3
AND 10 JUNE 1992.)) //

MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J252//
SUBJ/INTERVIEW OF REQUESTED SOURCE, NGUYEN VAN
THUONG//
RMKS/

F. NGO DAT TAI ((NGOO DATJ TAIF)), AKA MUOI TAI
((MUOWIF TAIFF)). SRCOL THUONG SUGGESTED TAI COULD KNOW
ABOUT POW CAMPS IN B.1 FRONT ((MILITARY REGION FIVE)).
((COMMENT: NUMBER 3 ON THE LIST OF 83 INTERVIEW SUBJECTS.))

G. NGUYEN BA MINH ((NGUYEENX BAF MINH)). ALTHOUGH MINH KNEW
ABOUT POW CAMPS IN B.4 FRONT ((MILITARY REGION TRI-THIEN-HUE)).
HE IS DECEASED. ((COMMENT: NUMBER 22 ON LIST OF 83 INTERVIEW
SUBJECTS. VNOSMP SPECIALISTS INFORMED US THAT MESSRS TO DIEU,
CHU HOANG BICH, AND NGO TAI HAVE CONFIRMED NGUYEN BA MINH
IS DEAD.))

H. A DECEASED CADRE OF B.3 FRONT WHOSE WIFE IS A
MEDICAL DOCTOR LIVING IN NINH BINH. SRCOL THUONG
COULD NOT RECALL DECEASED CADRE'S NAME.

I. CHU HONG BICH ((CHU HONGF BICHS)), AKA CHU HOANG BICH
((CHU HOANGF BICHS)). LIVES IN NAM DONG QUARTER OF HANOI.
FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT.
MIGHT KNOW ABOUT POW CAMPS IN HANOI AREA. ((COMMENT: NUMBER 2
ON LIST OF 83 INTERVIEW SUBJECTS. DET 2 PERSONNEL INTERVIEWED
HIM ON 12 MAY 1993.))

J. PHAM TAM ((PHAMJ TAAM)). A DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE
ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT. CURRENTLY LIVES IN THE VINH HO
((VINHX HOOF)) COLLECTIVE HOUSING AREA, HANOI.

K. KHUONG XUAN QUE. ((COMMENT: NUMBER 7 ON LIST OF 83
INTERVIEW SUBJECTS. DET 2 INTERVIEWED ON 25 MAY 93.))

6. MATERIAL EVIDENCE: NONE. THIS SOURCE BROUGHT NO RECORDS,
NOTEBOOKS, DIARIES, OR ANY MATERIAL EVIDENCE ASSOCIATED
WITH UNACCOUNTED FOR U.S. PERSONNEL.

7. COMMENTS.

A. DET 2 ORAL HISTORY PERSONNEL INTERVIEWED RETIRED MAJOR
PHAM VAN HUAN ON 2 JUNE 1992, VU QUAN 18 MAY 93, NGUYEN MINH Y
ON 3 AND 10 JUNE 1992, NGO DAT TAI ON 17 MAY 93, CU HONG
BICH/CAO HOANG BICH ON 12 MAY 93, AND KHUONG XUAN QUE ON 25
MAY 93. SRCOL

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THUONG CLAIMED NGUYEN BA MINH IS DECEASED.

B. REQUEST THE VNOSMP MAKE SRCOL THUONG AVAILABLE FOR
REINTERVIEW IF NECESSARY.//

BT

DLVR: CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI(1)...ORIG
J2(1)...INFO FOR USCINCPAC HONOLULU H(13)
J30-M(l) J3(1) 00-01-04(1) WWMCS(0) MDT(0) LRN061PCMT(0) J52(1)
J51(1) J1(1) J032(3) J03(1) CDO(2)

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