[130802Z.OH 08/04/96] NARRATIVE MESSAGE ADMINISTRATIVE MESSAGE ROUTINE R 130802Z OCT 94 ZYB FM CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI//J2// TO SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//USDP:ISA/DPMO// INFO WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/OCS/CCS/EAP/VLC// JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC//J5// DIA WASHINGTON DC USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J2/J3/J30-M// USCINCPAC LO WASHINGTON DC CIA WASHINGTON DC//DEA/SEA/IB/DDO/EA/ICOG// USDAO BANGKOK TH//PW-MIA// CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI//TAPC-PED-H// BT UNCLAS //N03460// MSGID/GENADMIN/CDR JTF-FA// SUBJ/ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM REPORT OF INTERVIEW - HOANG THE TRACH// REF/A/DOC/JTFFA DET TWO/03DEC93// REF/B/DOC/JTFFA DET TWO/28MAY94// REF/C/FAX/CJTFFA/llAUG94// REF/D/DOC/JTFFA DET TWO/16DEC93// NARR/REF A IS AN ORAL HISTORY REPORT OF INTERVIEW - HOANG THE TRACH. REF B IS THE LIST OF 76 INTERVIEW REQUESTS PRESENTED TO THE VNOSMP. REF C IS AN OHP INTERVIEW BACKGROUND (PCIT). REF D IS AN ORAL HISTORY REPORT INTERVIEW - DO CONG CHAN.// RMKS/1. SUMMARY OF INTERVIEW. ON 14 SEP 94, A JOINT U.S./VIETNAM ORAL HISTORY TEAM RE-INTERVIEWED RETIRED PAVN COLONEL HOANG THE TRACH AT THE NHAT LE HOTEL IN DONG HOI TOWN, QUANG BINH PROVINCE. HE PROVIDED INFORMATION THAT FURTHER CLARIFIED SOME ITEMS ON THE QUANG BINH GRAVES REGISTRIES, WHICH HE HELPED COMPILE. HE GAVE HIS OPINION ON WHY INDIVIDUALS IN SEVERAL CASES WERE NOT INCLUDED ON ANY MILITARY REGION (MR) 4 GRAVES REGISTRY. 2. BACKGROUND. ON 5 NOV 93, A JOINT ORAL HISTORY TEAM INTERVIEWED MR. HOANG THE TRACH IN HUE CITY. A FORMER QUANG BINH PROVINCIAL UNIT PROSELYTIZING CADRE, MR. TUONG CONTRIBUTED TO THE QUANG BINH PROVINCE GRAVES REGISTRIES COMPILATION. A. REF A DETAILS THE CONTENTS OF THAT ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW. /04798/ /286 1 QHA 0022 288/00:27Z 130802Z OCT 94 CSN:THETRACH 288/00:27Z CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI V92000710.00 / B. REF B IS A 76-ITEM ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW REQUEST LIST, WHICH INCLUDES A REQUIREMENT (LINE ITEM 10) TO RE-INTERVIEW MR. TRACH. C. REF C OUTLINES A SPECIFIC LINE OF QUESTIONING FOR THE RE-INTERVIEW. 3. DETAILS OF INTERVIEW. A. PARTICIPANTS. (1) U.S. CONTINGENT. (A) TSGT [XXXX][XXXX][XXXX],JTF-FA, DETACHMENT 2, ORAL HISTORY COORDINATOR. (B) SGT [XXXX][XXXX][XXXX], JTF-FA ANALYST/LINGUIST. (2) VIETNAMESE CONTINGENT. (A) COLONEL LE KY, MINISTRY OF NATIONAL DEFENSE REPRESENTATIVE. (B) MR. NGUYEN HOANG LONG, MINISTRY OF INTERIOR REPRESENTATIVE. B. PURPOSE OF INTERVIEW. IN REF C, JTF-FA/32 SPECIFIED INFORMATION TO OBTAIN, INCLUDING: (1) ADDITIONAL INFORMATION CONCERNING THE REFNO 0904-1-02 BURIAL SITE AND REMAINS DISPOSITION. (2) DETERMINE WHO PROVIDED THE INFORMATION THAT THE UNACCOUNTED FOR INDIVIDUAL IN CASE 0904 WAS AT CU NAM VILLAGE, QUANG BINH PROVINCE. (3) ADDITIONAL INFORMATION CONCERNING REFNO 1273-0-02 REMAINS DISPOSITION. (4) WERE THERE MAPS DEPICTING WHERE THE VIETNAMESE RE-INTERRED THE UNACCOUNTED FOR INDIVIDUAL IN CASE 1273? (5) WHERE DID MR4 FILE DOCUMENTS CONCERNING U.S. REMAINS? C. WITNESS INTERVIEW. (1) WITNESS. (A) BIOGRAPHICAL DATA. RETIRED COLONEL HOANG THE TRACH JOINED THE QUANG BINH PROVINCIAL UNIT ENEMY PROSELYTIZING SECTION (EPS) IN 1966. HE SERVED WITH THE EPS UNTIL 1972. MR. TRACH, NOW RETIRED FROM THE MILITARY, IS A FARMER IN DONG HOI TOWN. (B) WITNESS RELIABILITY. THOUGH THE QUANG BINH PROVINCE TASK TEAM MADE AN ADVANCE APPOINTMENT WITH MR. TRACH, HE WAS NOT AVAILABLE AT THE APPOINTED TIME. HE ARRIVED SEVERAL HOURS LATE, CLAIMING TO HAVE HAD PRESSING BUSINESS. GIVEN HIS APPARENT INDIFFERENCES TO INTERVIEW PROCEEDINGS IN THE PAST (SEE REF A), THE INTERVIEWER THOUGHT HIS ATTITUDE MIGHT NOT BE CONDUCIVE TO A PRODUCTIVE INTERVIEW SESSION. WHEN THE JOINT TEAM EXPLAINED THAT HIS PREVIOUS STATEMENTS HAD PROVED VALUABLE IN UNDERSTANDING THE QUANG BINH GRAVES REGISTRIES, AND THAT THIS INTERVIEW WOULD ONLY ADDRESS CERTAIN SPECIFIC ISSUES, HE PARTICIPATED WITH INTEREST. HIS RESPONSES WERE SPONTANEOUS, APPARENTLY SINCERE, AND LOGICAL. AFTER THE SESSION, WE DISCUSSED CURRENT U.S. VETERANS GROUPS' EFFORTS TO HELP RECOVER VIETNAMESE MIA REMAINS. AS A MEMBER OF HIS LOCAL VETERANS CHAPTER, HE WAS VERY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT THIS SUBJECT, AND PLEDGED TO PARTICIPATE IN FUTURE INTERVIEWS IF NECESSARY. THE INTERVIEWER /04798/ /286 2 QHA 0022 288/00:27Z 130802Z OCT 94 CSN:THETRACH 288/00:27Z CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI V92000710.00 / DETECTED NO DISCREPANCIES IN MR. TRACH'S STATEMENTS. WE ASSESS THIS WITNESS'S RELIABILITY AS HIGH. (C) STATEMENT. 1. QUESTION: OF THE AMERICANS LISTED ON THE 15-ITEM QUANG BINH GRAVES REGISTRY, THE VIETNAMESE GOVERNMENT REPATRIATED 14 INDIVIDUALS. ONLY C [E PERSON ON THIS LIST, THE UNACCOUNTED FOR INDIVIDUAL IN CASE 1973, REMAINS UNACCOUNTED FOR. SINCE AT ONE TIME THE VIETNAMESE GOVERNMENT OBVIOUSLY KNEW WHERE THIS INDIVIDUAL'S GRAVE WAS, WHY HAVEN'T THEY REPATRIATED THE REMAINS? 2. ANSWER: AS I TOLD YOU DURING OUR PREVIOUS DISCUSSION (SEE REF A), THERE WERE INSTANCES WHEN WE LOST GRAVES AND COULD NOT REPATRIATE THE REMAINS. REASONS FOR LOSING GRAVES INCLUDED BOMBING, WILD ANIMALS, AND LOSING TRACK OF GRAVE LOCATIONS AFTER MOVING GRAVES OR BECAUSE OF TERRAIN CHANGES. 3. QUESTION: SO, GENERALLY SPEAKING, YOU COULD HAVE LOST THE 15TH GRAVE ON THIS REGISTRY AFTER YOU COMPILED THE REGISTRY. 4. ANSWER: THAT IS CORRECT. IN 1972 (AFTER WE BEGAN COMPILING THE LIST), THE WAR IN QUANG BINH WAS STILL VERY FIERCE. 5. QUESTION: WAS THERE A SKETCH MAP INDICATING THE LOCATION WHERE THE 15TH INDIVIDUAL ON THE LIST WAS RE-INTERRED? 6. ANSWER: WHEN WE MOVED THE GRAVES TO CENTRAL LOCATIONS TO FACILITATE REPATRIATION, THERE WAS NO REQUIREMENT TO SKETCH THE SITE. THE RE-INTERMENT LOCATION WAS IN THANH THUY (THANH THUYR) VILLAGE, LE THUY (LEE THUYR) DISTRICT, BUT THERE WAS NO MAP OF THE SITE. IT'S POSSIBLE THAT WE LOST THE GRAVE TO U.S. BOMBING. 7. QUESTION: LINE NUMBER 24 FROM THE 45-ITEM QUANG BINH BRAVES REGISTRY INDICATES AN AMERICAN DIED AT THE CU NAM (CWJ NAAMX - VICINITY 48Q XE 51/51) DISPENSARY AND WAS BURIED AT THE VIET TRUNG STATE FARM (NOONG TRWONGF VIEETJ TRUNG - VICINITY 48Q XE 54/31). AFTER INVESTIGATING THIS CASE, HOWEVER, WE DETERMINED THIS INDIVIDUAL DIED AND WAS BURIED NEAR VAN LA (VAWN LA) HAMLET (VICINITY 48Q XE 73/26). CAN YOU COMMENT ON THIS? 8. ANSWER: THE VIET TRUNG STATE FARM IS EIGHT OR NINE KILOMETERS SOUTH OF CU NAM AS THE CROW FLIES, AND OVER TEN KILOMETERS ON LAND OVER BAD ROADS. IF SOMEONE DIED AT CU NAM, WHETHER HE WAS A U.S. PILOT OR SOMEONE FROM OUR SIDE, WE WOULD NOT HAVE CARRIED THE BODY TO THE STATE FARM FOR BURIAL. THERE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN A CIRCUMSTANCE LIKE THIS. 9. QUESTION: IF THAT IS SO, HOW CAN YOU EXPLAIN LINE NUMBER 24 FROM THE 45-ITEM LIST? 10. ANSWER: EITHER THE PERSON ORIGINALLY COPYING THE INFORMATION HEARD WRONG, OR SOMEONE MADE A MISTAKE WHEN RE-COPYING THE INFORMATION FROM THE ORIGINAL NOTES TO THE 45-ITEM LIST. MR4 PERSONNEL TYPED THIS LIST, NOT LOCAL QUANG BINH PERSONNEL. SINCE THE COMPILER MAY NOT HAVE BEEN FAMILIAR WITH THE LOCAL TERRAIN, IT'S POSSIBLE HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT THERE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN A CIRCUMSTANCE LIKE THIS. 11. QUESTION: IN SEPTEMBER 1967, THERE WAS A BATTLE AT CON TIEN (COONF TIEEN) IN QUANG TRI PROVINCE BETWEEN THE PAVN 90TH /04798/ /286 3 QHA 0022 288/00:27Z 130802Z OCT 94 CSN:THETRACH 288/00:27Z CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI V92000710.00 / MAIN FORCE (CHUR LWCJ) REGIMENT AND A U.S. MARINE FORCE. BOTH SIDES SUSTAINED HEAVY CASUALTIES AND THE AMERICAN SIDE LEFT 14 DEAD AND ONE WOUNDED INDIVIDUAL ON THE BATTLE FIELD. THE 90TH REGIMENT CARRIED THE WOUNDED AMERICAN NORTH TO HOSPITAL 48C IN VINH LINH, IN QUANG BINH PROVINCE, WHERE HE DIED AND WAS BURIED. IN 1986, THE VIETNAMESE GOVERNMENT REPATRIATED THIS INDIVIDUAL'S REMAINS. HIS NAME IS NOT ON ANY QUANG BINH GRAVES REGISTRY. SINCE HE DIED ON QUANG BINH SOIL, HOW CAN YOU EXPLAIN THIS? 12. ANSWER: ALTHOUGH VINH LINH WAS IN QUANG BINH, THAT AREA HAD MANY HOSPITALS SUBORDINATE TO MANY DIFFERENT DIVISIONS. THERE WERE DIVISIONS SUBORDINATE TO THE MILITARY REGION, TO THE FRONT, AND INDEPENDENT DIVISIONS SUBORDINATE TO THE MINISTRY OF NATIONAL DEFENSE. IF THIS INDIVIDUAL'S NAME IS NOT ON ANY MR4 GRAVES REGISTRY, THE 9OTH REGIMENT WAS PROBABLY SUBORDINATE TO AN ORGANIZATION OTHER THAT MR4. 13. QUESTION: IN NOVEMBER 1967, A U.S. AIRCRAFT WENT DOWN OFF THE COAST OF QUANG BINH PROVINCE. THE NEXT DAY, A DEAD AMERICAN PILOT WASHED UP ON THE SHORE AT VINH LINH. THE LOCALS BURIED THE BODY ON THE BEACH. MORE RECENTLY, A JOINT U.S./VIETNAM INVESTIGATION TEAM TALKED TO A MAN WHO DISCOVERED AND RE-BURIED THESE REMAINS. HE LED A TEAM TO THE SITE WHERE WE RECOVERED THE REMAINS. SINCE MANY LOCAL PEOPLE EVIDENTLY KNEW ABOUT THIS, WHY WASN'T THIS INDIVIDUAL'S NAME ON ANY GRAVES REGISTRY? 14. ANSWER: THE LOCAL PEOPLE AT VINH LINH ARE MOSTLY FISHERMAN. ACCORDING TO THEIR CUSTOM, WHEN A CORPSE WASHES ONTO SHORE, WHETHER IT IS A WHALE, A DOLPHIN, OR A HUMAN, THEY BURY THE BODY FOR LUCK AND LIGHT INCENSE. THESE PEOPLE ARE SUPERSTITIOUS AND WOULD BE PRIMARILY CONCERNED WITH AVOIDING BAD LUCK CAUSED BY NOT BURYING THE BODY WITH THE PROPER RITUAL AND CEREMONY. THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CONCERNED WITH REPORTING THE INCIDENT THROUGH OFFICIAL CHANNELS. THEREFORE, IT'S LIKELY MR4 NEVER KNEW ABOUT THE GRAVE. 15. QUESTION: IN YOUR OPINION, WHERE WOULD ARCHIVAL DOCUMENTS CONCERNING U.S. REMAINS BE TODAY? 16. ANSWER: I HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING. YOU MIGHT TRY RESEARCHING ARCHIVES FOR THE SPECIFIC PAVN UNITS INVOLVED IN LOSS INCIDENTS. 4. MATERIAL EVIDENCE. NONE. 5. INTERVIEWER'S REMARKS. A. CORRELATIONS. NONE. B. POTENTIAL LEADS. NONE. C. COMMENTS. NONE.// BT /04798/ /286 4 QHA 0022288/00:27Z 130802Z OCT 94 SN:THETRACH 288/00:27Z CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI C V92000710.00 /