[080820Z.OH 06/07/96] 1/2 DS UNCLASSIFIED CJTF-FADETONEBA 013963/01 ORIGIN CJTF2 INFO DCM POL SA DAO PW/MIA EXA DALO INHB (9) VZ CZC RR RUHQHQE RUMTFS RUEHPF RUEKJCS RUE(JCS RUHQHQB RUEKJCS RUEKJCS RUEAIIA RUHVAAA RUEADWW RUEHC DE RUEHBK #3963/01 098 ** ZNR UUUUU CLASS: UNCLASSIFIED T0 080820Z APR 93 CHRGE: CJTF04/08/93 FM CJTF-FA DET ONE BANGKOK TH APPRV: CJTF:GEB TO RUHQHQE / CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI DRFTD: CJTF:GEB INFO RUMTFS / AMEMBASSY VIENTIANE//CJTF-FA DET THREE/ : NONE RUEHPF / USMISSION PHNOM PENH//CJTFFA DET FOUR//DISTR: CJTF RUEKJCS / JOINT STAFF WASHDC//OCJS-PW-MIA/J5// ORGIN: OCR RUEKJCS / SECDEF WASHDC//OASD-ISA/PW-MIA// RUHQHQB / USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J3 RUEKJCS / USCINCPAC LO WASHDC// RUEKJCS / DIA WASHDC//POW-MIA// RUEAIIA / CIA WASHDC//DEA/SEA/IB/DDO/ICOC// RUHVAAA / CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI// RUEADWW / NSC WASHDC RUEHC / SECSTATE WASHDC//CA/OCS/CCS/EAP// BT UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 BANGKOK TH 13963 UNCLASSIFIED 0137 APRIL 93 DIA PASS TO DOD POW-MIA CENTRAL DOCUMENTATION OFFICE SUBJ: SRV ORAL HISTORY, REF: DET 1, JTF-FA MSG 230355Z MAR 93 1. REF WAS THE SUMMARY REPORT OF ACTIVITIES CONDUCTED IN VIETNAM BY JTF-FA SPECIAL ASSISTANT, MR G.E. BELL, DURING THE PERIOD 3 TO 19 MARCH 1993. PARA 2E OF REF REFERS TO LTC PHAM PHI LONG. THE FOLLOWING REPORT PROVIDES THE DETAILS OF THE INTERVIEW CONDUCTED WITH LTC LONG. THE INTERVIEW WAS MONITORED BY ASSIGNED COUNTERPART AND MINISTRY OF NATIONAL DEFENCE (MND) REP, LTC PHAM TEO, AND MINISTRY OF THE INTERIOR (MOI) REP, MR NGUYEN THE CONG. REPRESENTING THE HO CHI MINH CITY PEOPLE'S COMMITTEE WERE THE DEPUTY CHIEF or CONSULAR AFFAIRS FOR SOUTH VIETNAM, MR BUI DAC TAM (TAAM), THE CITY MILITARY COMMAND REP, LTC TRAN VAN TAN (TAAN), AND THE CITY PUBLIC SECURITY REP, MAJ NGUYEN VAN HA (HAS), 2. LTC PHAM PHI LONG, AKA SAU (6) PHI LONG, A 75 YEAR OLD NATIVE OF BEN TRE, WAS INTERVIEWED IN HO CHI MINH CITY ON 11 MARCH 1993. SOURCE SAID HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE PEOPLE'S ARMY OF VIETNAM (PAVN) FROM AUGUST 1945 TO 1 MAY 1975. SOURCE WAS ASSIGNED TO THE ENEMY PROSELYTING OFFICE (EPO), SUBORDINATE TO THE POLITICAL DEPARTMENT OF THE HQ, SOUTH VIETNAM LIBERATION ARMED FORCES (SVNLAF) BEGINNING AT THE TIME OF THE "TET" GENERAL OFFENSIVE IN 1968. SOURCE HELD THE POSITION OF DEPUTY CHIEF OF THE POLICY SECTION, EPO FROM 1968 UNTIL THE PARIS AGREEMENTS WERE SIGNED IN 1973. DURING THE WAR YEARS, THE EPO OF THE HQ, SVNLAF WAS THE SOUTHERN EQUIVALENT OF THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT OF THE GENERAL POLITICAL DIRECTORATE IN HANOI. THE EPO ACTUALLY HAD TWO DEPUTIES, ONE IN CHARGE OF US POW AFFAIRS, AND ONE IN CHARGE OF POW'S OF THE REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM (RVN). SOURCE WAS THE DEPUTY FOR RVN PERSONNEL AND HAD NO CONTACT WITH US PERSONNEL HELD BY THE COMMUNISTS, THE EPO WAS ORGANIZED WITH THREE SECTIONS; THE COMBAT ENEMY PROSELYTING SECTION (BAN DICH VAN CHIEN DAJ), THE EDUCATION AND PROPAGANDA SECTION (BAN GIAO DUC VA TUYEN TRUYEN), AND THE POLICY SECTION (BAN CHIN SACH). ACCORDING TO SOURCE, THERE WAS NO SEPARATE SECTION FOR INTELLIGENCE. (NOTE: SOME PREVIOUS SOURCES HAVE REPORTED A SEPARATE SECTION OF THE EPO CALLED THE ENEMY SITUATION SECTION (BAN DICH TINH). SOURCE SAID THAT PERSONNEL FROM THE EPO WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE EXTRACTION OF INFORMATION FROM POW'S WERE PERIODICALLY ASSIGNED TO THE THREE SECTIONS OF THE EPO. 3. ALTHOUGH SOURCE DID NOT HAVE DIRECT CONTACT WITH US POW'S, HE WAS AWARE OF ONE CAMP CALLED INTER-CAMP "A", WHERE US POW'S WERE REPORTEDLY HELD. SOURCE RECALLED THAT THE CAMP FOR POW'S OF THE RVN WAS DESIGNATED AS INTER-CAMP "B". SOURCE CLAIMED TO HAVE NO SPECIFIC INFORMATION CONCERNING THESE TWO CAMPS. WHEN ASKED, SOURCE SOURCE SAID HE DID RECALL HAVING HEARD ABOUT A CAMP CALLED "B-22", WHICH WAS SUBORDINATE TO THE EPO. SOURCE ALSO RECALLED A CAMP FOR RVN POW'S DESIGNATED D-23. SOURCE CLAIMED NO KNOWLEDGE OF CAMP DESIGNATED B-17 OR C-53 SOURCE RECALLED THAT THE POLITICAL OFFICER OF CAMP B 22 WAS CALLED PA (3) MANH. (NOTE: ACCORDING TO ASSIGNED COUNTERPART LTC PHAM TEO, BA MANH HAS BEEN INTERVIEWED BY A US INVESTIGATION ELEMENT DURING A PREVIOUS JOINT FIELD ACTIVITY). SOURCE CLAIMED NO KNOWLEDGE CONCERNING THE POW CAMPS OF MILITARY REGIONS IN THE SOUTH. SOURCE COULD ONLY RECALL THAT MRS WAS DESIGNATED "T-2" AND MR9 WAS DESIGNATED "T-3". 4. DURING THE PERIOD OF SOURCE'S ASSIGNMENT TO THE SOUTHERN EPO, THE CHIEF OF THE EPO WAS NGO DUC TAI, AKA MUOI (10) TAI. (NOTE: SA'S TENTATIVE INTERVIEW SCHEDULE HAS SR COL TAI LISTED FOR INTERVIEW ON 8 MAY 93) THE DEPUTY OF THE EPO WAS SR COL PHAM IAN BAN, AKA BA (3) BAN, (NOTE: SR COL BAN WAS INTERVIEWED IN HANOI ON 7 JAN 93, SEE DET 1 JTF-FA MSG 261015Z JAN 93). THE DEPUTY OF THE EPO WAS SR COL BUI THANH NGON. (NOTE: SR COL NGON WAS INTERVIEWED IN CAN THO ON 6 MAR 93, SEE DET 1 JTF-FA NSC 1/2 DS UNCLASSIFIED CJTF-FADETONEBA 013963-01 UNCLAS SECTION 02 OF 02 BANGKOK TH 13963 010807Z APR 93). THE CAMP COMMANDER OF INTER-CAMP "A" WAS TAM (8) HUY. (NOTE: SR COL HUY WAS INTERVIEWED IN BEN TRE ON 24 OCT 89, SEE JCRC BKK MSG 270246Z NOV 89). THE CADRE IN CHARGE OF THE PROVISIONAL REVOLUTIONARY GOVERNMENT DELEGATION ESCORTING US POW'S TO THEIR RELEASE POINT AT LOC NINH IN 1973 WAS SR COL PHAM VAN LUC, AKA NAM (5) LUG. (NOTE: PREVIOUS SOURCES HAVE INDICATED THAT SR COT. LUC WAS KIA BY B-52 STRIKE PRIOR TO THE 1973 RELEASE. THESE SAME SOURCES HAVE ALSO INDICATED THAT SR COL LUC DID PARTICIPATE IN THE EXCHANGE OF US OR COMMUNIST POW'S THAT OCCURRED PRIOR TO 1973). A WARTIME CHIEF OF THE EPO IN THE SOUTH WAS SR COL TUYEN (TUYEENS). SR COL TUYEN REPLACED SR COL NGO DUC TAR SOMETIME DURING THE EARLY 1970'S. WHEN THE WAR ENDED IN 1975, SR COL TUYEN BECAME THE VICE-CHAIRMAN OF THE PROVINCE PEOPLE'S COMMITTEE IN SONG BE PROVINCE. SOURCE BELIEVES SR COL TUYEN IS NOW RETIRED AND RESIDING IN THU DUC. 5. OTHER CADRE RECALLED BY SOURCE INCLUDE :INSTERPRETER NGUYEN HUNG TRI, NOV RESIDING IN HANOI. (NOTE: PREVIOUSLY INTERVIEWED); SAU (6) KEO (KEOS), A CADRE OF INTER-CAMP "A", NOW DECEASED: BA (3) CAN (CAANF), A CADRE OF INTER-CAMP "A" POSSIBLY CURRENTLY RESlDING IN CU CHI DISTRICT OF HCMC; DANG THUAN HOA, ALSO A CADRE OF INTER-CAMP "A", NOW RESlDING IN HCMC. (NOTE: ALREADY INTERVIEWED); TU MAO, A CADRE OF THE EPO ASSIGNED TO THE SAIGON AREA DURING THE VAR. (NOTE: TRUONG HUYNH MAO, AKA HUYNH KIM TRUONG, AKA TU MAO, AKA TU TRUONG WAS INTERVIEWED ON 12 MAR 33 AND THE RESULTS WILL BE FORWARDED SEPARATELY). BAO BINH, THE FORMER GUARD FORCE COMMANDER OF INTER-CAMP "A". (NOTE: INTERVIEVED PREVIOUSLY); DAN MANH, AKA BA (3) MANH, THE FORMER POLITICAL OFFICER OF CAMP "B-22", NOW RESIDING IN BA RIA-VUNG TAU. (NOTE: ACCORDING TO LTC PHAM TEO, DAN MANH WAS INTERVIEWED BY AN INVESTIGATION ELEMENT DURING A PREVIOUS JFA). INTERPRETER LE HOA (HOAF), DECEASED; INTERPRETER UT HUE (HUEEJ), DECEASED; THE INTELLIGENCE OFFICER OF THE EPO (PHONG 2), NGUYEN TAN LUC, WHO DIED IN VUNG TAU AFTER THE WAR ENDED. 6. WHEN ASKED CONCERNING HIS KNOWLEDGE OF A CADRE CALLED TRAN CHAU, SOURCE SAID HE COULD ONLY RECALL TWO CADRE CALLED "CHAU", BUT WAS NOT ABLE TO RECALL THEIR SURNAMES. HE RECALLED "THAT ONE MEDIC ASSIGNED TO INTER-CAMP "A" WAS CALLED "CHAU" AND HE DIED DURING THE WAR. ANOTHER CADRE CALLED CHAU WAS A SR LT IN THE POLICY SECTION WHO RETURNED TO HANOI AFTER THE WAR AND WAS ASSIGNED TO A PRISON CAMP AT THANH LIET. (NOTE: AKA HANOI "B" AND THE SAME PRISON VISITED BY THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE DURING APRIL 1992). CONCERNING FORMER CADRE OF THE MILITARY REGIONS WHO MIGHT BE ABLE TO PROVIDE INFORMATION OF POW/MIA INTEREST, SOURCE SAID THE ONLY NAME HE CAN RECALL IS TAM HIEN'S (8) HIEN (HIEENF), THE FORMER COMMANDER OF MR-9. SOURCE VAGUELY RECALLED TAM HIEN'S TRUE NAME AS NGUYEN MINH NHU (NHUW). 7. COMMENTS: -A. SOURCE WAS COOPERATIVE BUT APPEARED TO HAVE POOR RECALL REGARDING SPECIFICS. THIS WAS IN CONTRAST TO 2/2 UNCLASSIFIED CJTF-FADETONEBA 0l3963/02 PREVIOUS INTERVIEWEES WHO APPEARED TO HAVE GOOD RECALL BUT VERY RELUCTANT TO SHARE THEIR KNOWLEDGE OF THE WARTIME CAMP SYSTEM AND CADRES. SOURCE'S LIMITED INFORMATION, WHEN VIEWED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THAT PROVIDED BY PREVIOUS SOURCES, MAY BEGIN TO FORM A BASIS FOR A BETTER ANALYSIS OF THE WARTIME EPO/EPD APPARATUS. B. SOURCE'S VAGUE RECOLLECTION OF INTER-CAMPS "A" AND "B", AS WELL AS CAMPS B-22 AND B-23 MAY INDICATE THAT THESE ARE COVER DESIGNATIONS FOR THE SAME CAMPS AT VARYING LOCATIONS. SOURCE SEEMED SURPRISED AT THE MENTION OF A CAMP WITH A "C" DESIGNATION AND GAVE THE IMPRESSION HE WAS DOUBTFUL CONCERNING THE EXISTENCE OF ANY SUCH CAMP. BT #3963 NNRN 2/2 UNCLASSIFIED CJTF-FADETONEBA 013963/02