[231822Z.OH 05/20/96]
    
RCV10776                   18:55  06/24/93

VZCZCBTO806
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DE RUHQSGG #6006 1741822
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TO RUEHBT/CJTFFA DET ONE  BANGKOK TH
INFO RHEHNSC/WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC
RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/OCS/CCS/EAP/VLC//
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//OASD-ISA/PW-MI A//
RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC//OCJCS/J5/PW-MIA/J3-JOD//
RUEKJCS/USCINCPAC LO WASHINGTON DC
RUHQHQB/USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J3/J30-M//
RUEKJCS/DIA WASHINGTON DC//PW-MIA//
RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC//DEA/SEA/IB/DDO/EA/ICOG//
RUHVAAA/CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB  HI//TAPC-PED-H//
RUEHBT/USDAO BANGKOK TH//PW-NM//
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UNCLAS //N03460//
SECTION 01 OF 02
MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J2//

AMPN/SUBJ: INTERVIEW OR REQUESTED SOURCE,  MR. CHU HOANG BICH//

REF/A/DET 2/1 16MAY93//
AMPN/SUBJ: LIST OF PERSONS FOR INTERVIEW-SENATOR KERRY, ENTRY

PAGE 02 RUHQSGG6006 UNCLAS
NUMBER  2 OF 83//
RMKS/1. BACKGROUND. ON 12 MAY  1993,  A JOINT US/VIETNAM
INTERVIEW TEAM  INTERVIEWED HR. CHU HOANG BICH, A NATIVE OF NORTH
VIETNAM  CURRENTLY RESIDING IN HANOI (APPROXIMATELY 55-60 YEARS OF
AGE) WHO IS A RETIRED SENIOR COLONEL AND WAS A FORMER  DEPUTY
CHIEF OF  THE ENEMY PROSELYTING OFFICE DURING THE WAR.  THE TEAM
MET  AT THE ANTE-BUILDING MEETING  ROOM  OF THE COVERNMENT GUEST
HOUSE, 2 LE THACH STREET, HOAN KIEM  DISTRICT, HANOI, TO INTERVIEW
SELECTED PERSONNEL, LISTED IN REFERENCE, WHO ARE BELIEVED TO BE
POTENTIAL SOURCES OF INFORMATION  CONCERNING U.S. PERSONNEL
MISSING IN ACTION IN VIETNAM. THE U.S CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF
MR. KEITH GARY FLANAGAN, DET 2 CASUALTY RESOLUTION SPECIALIST.
THE VIETNAMESE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF LTC LE
KY, MINISTRY OF DEFENSE; AND MR. NGUYEN THANG LOI, MINISTRY OF
INTERIOR. ON 12 MAY 1993, LTC KY ESCORTED MR. CHU HOANG BICH TO
THE GOVERNMENT GUEST HOUSE. MR. BICH SAID HE HAD NOT BEEN
INTERVIEWED BY JOINT TEAMS PREVIOUSLY. LTC KY INTRODUCED THE
TEAM MEMBERS AND THEIR MISSION.

2. SUMMARY.  THE SOURCE PROVIDED LIMITED GENERAL INFORMATION
CONCERNING U.S. SERVICEMEN WHO BECAME  UNACCOUNTED FOR IN VIETNAM.

PAGE 03 RUHQSGG6006 UNCLAS
THE SOURCE PROVIDED LIMITED DETAILS OF HIS MILITARY DUTIES AND
EXPERIENCE IN SUPPORT OF  A CONCLUSION THAT  HE HAD NO
SIGNIFICANT INFORMATION TO CONTRIBUTE.

3. DETAILS.

A. CONCERNING THE FATES OF U.S. PERSONNEL WHO REMAINED UNACCOUNTED
FOR  AND WARTIME REPORTING ON U.S. PRISONERS, MR. BICH SAID THAT HE DID
NOT KNOW ABOUT ANY MIAS IN PARTICULAR.  HE SAID THAT HIS WORK DURING THE
WAR WAS TO  GET U.S. AND REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM FORCES TO PUT DOWN THEIR ARMS.
MR. BICH SAID THAT HE HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF ANY SPECIFIC PERSONNEL WHO
DIED ON THE BATTLEFIELD. MR. BICH SAID THAT HE WAS ONLY PERSONALLY
AWARE OF THOSE POWS WHO WERE SUCCESSFULLY EVACUATED TO THE NORTH AND
THOSE PILOTS WHO HERE CAPTURED IN THE NORTH. MR. BICH SAID THAT HE ONLY
KNEW OF U.S. KIAS BY THE ARTIFACTS, DOCUMENTS, AND IDENTIFICATION MEDIA
WHICH WERE SENT NORTH. OTHER THAN KNOWING THAT THE DOCUMENTATION
EXISTED, MR. BICH SAID THAT HE KNEW NOTHING SPECIFIC ABOUT ANY REPORTS OF
DEATH, SKETCHES, OR OTHER REPORTING WHICH MIGHT ASSIST THE JOINT TEAM IN
THEIR MISSION.

B. MR. BICH STEERED AWAY FROM ALL QUESTIONS OF A PERSONAL
NATURE. HE INTRODUCED HIMSELF AS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO UNDERSTOOD

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THE TEAM MISSION BUT EMPHASIZED  THAT HE WOULD BE Of LITTLE OF NO
VALUE AS A WITNESS. WHEN MR. FLANAGAN SHOWED MR. BICH EXAMPLES
OF THE KINDS OF DOCUMENTS ALREADY RECEIVED AS THE RESULT OF JOINT
EFFORTS, MR. BICH  RESPONDED THAT DURING THE WAR HIS AGENCY WAS
ONLY CONCERNED WITH DOCUMENTS IN ORDER TO LEARN ABOUT THE U.S.
OF THINKING OR WAY OF LIFE HE SAID HIS AGENCY'S  PURPOSE WAS TO
CHANGE THE U.S. SERVICEMAN'S WAY OF THINKING. MR. BICH RECALLED THAT
SME DIARIES WERE RECEIVED AFTER U.S. SERVICEMEN WERE KILLED BUT THAT
HE PERSONALLY WOULD HAVE NO WAY OF LOCATING THE DIARIES ASSOCIATING
THEM WITH ANY SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS.

MR. BICH  SAID THAT HIS DEALINGS WITH POWS WERE TO TURN THEM
FROM ADVERSARIES INTO UNDERSTANDING INDIVIDUALS USING WHATEVER
INFORMATION AND DISINFORMATION MATERIALS WERE AVAILABLE.

C. MR. BICH SAID THAT IN HIS OPINION, FINDING ANY RELEVANT ARCHIVES
TODAY WOULD BE EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. HE SAID THAT MEMORABILIA, WHICH
WOULD HAVE BEEN THE IMMEDIATE RESPONSIBILITIES OF INDIVIDUALS IN EACH
AREA WHERE RECORDS WOULD HAVE BEEN KEPT, INCLUDING DIARIES, WERE VERY
IMPORTANT, AS THEY LET HIS OFFICE KNOW OF THE PEACE MOVEMENT IN THE
STATES. MR. BICH RECALLED ONE U.S. SERVICEMAN WHO HAD KEPT SUCH
A DIARY AND WAS KILLED IN

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BATTLE. MR. BICH SAID THE INDIVIDUAL WAS ASSIGNED TO
VIETNAM IN OCTOBER 1967, AND DIED ON 31 MAY 1968.
ACCORDING TO MR. BICH, IN THE FINAL PAGES OF HIS DIARY, THE
SERVICEMAN WROTE OF HAVING SPENT "...SIX MONTHS IN VIETNAM, AND I
STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE ARE FIGHTING." MR. BICH SAID THAT HE
RECALLED NO OTHER DETAILS ABOUT THE SERVICEMAN OR THE DIARY.

D. MR. BICH SAID THAT HE UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE JOINT TEAM WAS TRYING
TO ACCOMPLISH. MR. BICH SAID THAT AS HE UNDERSTOOD THE PROBLEM, WITHOUT
A DETAILED LIST OF MIAS FOR COMPARISON, HE COULD BE OF NO HELP TO THE
JOINT TEAM. MR. BICH SAID THAT HE HAD NO WAY OF RESPONDING TO A BLANKET
REQUEST FOR INFORMATION, AND THAT IF HE DID HAVE A DETAILED LIST HE
MIGHT BE OF SOME LIMITED ASSISTANCE.

E. MR. FLANAGAN ASKED THE QUESTION: "SINCE THE RELEASE OF U.S.
PRISONERS IN 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY LIVE AMERICANS?" MR. BICH
RESPONDED THAT HE REALLY DID NOT KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. MR.
BICH SAID THAT ON 29 MARCH 1973 THE LAST U.S. POW WAS RETURNED TO THE
U.S. IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PARIS PEACE ACCORDS. ON THAT SAME DAY, MR.
BICH SAID THAT THE LAST U.S. SERVICEMEN DEPARTED TAN SON NHUT AIRFIELD
IN RESPONSE TO THE

PAGE 06 RUHQSGG6006 UNCLAS
RELEASE OF THE LAST POW. MR. BICH SAID THAT HE RECALLED THAT THE
NAME OF THE LAST POW WAS AGNEW. HE SAID HE REMEMBERED IT BECAUSE
IT WAS THE SAME AS THE VICE PRESIDENT'S NAME. MR. BICH SAID HE
RECALLED THAT THE LAST POW CAPTURED WAS A MAJOR NAMED KIENTZLER (MR.
BICH PRONOUNCED THE NAME, CRS PROVIDED THE SPELLING). MR. BICH SAID
THAT AS HE UNDERSTOOD THE SITUATION, ALL THE POWS WENT HOME.

F. MR. FLANAGAN ASKED THE QUESTION: "SINCE THE RELEASE OF U.S
PRISONERS IN 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY 'STAY-BEHINDS'?" MR. BICH
RESPONDED THAT TO HIS KNOWLEDGE, ONLY ONE DID NOT RETURN AND HE WAS NOT
A POW - BOBBY GARWOOD. MR. BICH SAID THAT THERE HAD BEEN SOME HEARSAY
INFORMATION OF DESERTERS IN THE SAIGON REGION AND SOME RURAL AREAS, BUT
IF THERE WERE ANY STAY-BEHINDS, HE HAD NO EVIDENCE OR DIRECT KNOWLEDGE.

G. ON 12 MAY 93, WITH NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS AT HAND FOR MR. BICH,
THE MEMBERS OF THE JOINT TEAM AGREED TO DISCONTINUE THIS INTERVIEW. BOTH
THE US AND SRV MEMBERS CONFERRED ON ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS WHICH SHOULD BE
CONSIDERED BEFORE CONCLUDING THIS INTERVIEW. .--//

BT
#6006

RCV113361                              03:42 06/29/93
VZCZCBT0383
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DE RUHQSGG #6007 1741822
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R 231822Z JUN 93   ZYB
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TO RUEHBT/CJTFFA DET ONE BANGKOK TH
INFO RHEHNSC/WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC
RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/OCS/CCS/EAP/VLC//
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//OASD-ISA/PW-MIA//
RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC//OCJCS/J5/PW-M1IA/J3-JOD//
RUEKJCS/USCINCPAC LO WASHINGTON DC
RUHQHQB/USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J3/J30-M//
RUEKJCS/DIA WASHINGTON DC//PW-MIA//
RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC//DEA/SEA/IB/DDO/EA/ICOG//
RUHVAA/CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI//TAPC-PED-H//
RUEHBT/USDAO BANGKOK TH//PW-MIA//
BT
UNCLAS //N03460//
FINAL SECTION OF 02
MSGID/SYS. RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J2//
RMKS/
4.  POTENTIAL LEADS OBTAINED DURING THE INTERVIEW.  NONE.  MR.
BICH SAID THAT THERE WERE MANY OTHERS WHO SHOULD KNOW MUCH MORE
    
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ABOUT THE  FATES OF U.S. SERVICEMEN THAN HE HIMSELF. IN
PARTICULAR, HE RECALLED NO NAMES.

5.  MATERIAL EVIDENCE: NONE. THIS SOURCE BROUGHT TO THE
INTERVIEW WITH HIM NO RECORDS, NOTEBOOKS, DIARIES, OR ANY
MATERIAL EVIDENCE CONTEMPORARY TO THE WARTIME ERA.

6. RECOMMENDED FUTURE ACTIONS.
    
A. RECOMMEND FURTHER JOINT INTERVIEW OF THIS SOURCE ONLY IF SPECIFIC
INFORMATION OR MORE  SPECIFIC QUESTIONS OR LEADS FOR THIS SOURCE ARE
DEVELOPED.
    
B. REQUEST THE VNOSMP ALLOW THE U.S. ACCESS TO THIS SOURCE FOR POTENTIAL
FUTURE INTERVIEW IF DEEMED NECESSARY.

7. PERTINENT LOCATION OR DATA CHANGES: NONE.
    
8. COMMENTS.
    
A. AFTER THIS INTERVIEW, THE MEMBERS OF THE JOINT TEAM ASSESSED THE
INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE SOURCE. THE CONSENSUS OF TEAM MEMBERS WAS THAT
CONTINUATION OF THIS INTERVIEW OR AN ATTEMPT TO RE-INTERVIEW THIS SOURCE
WOULD DEPEND ON SIGNIFICANT QUESTIONS WHICH SHOULD BE ASKED PERTAINING TO
SPECIFIC INCIDENTS OR SPECIFIC QUESTIONS WHICH NIGHT LEAD TO FINDING NEW
WITNESSES OR DISCOVERING CONTEMPORARY DOCUMENTATION WITH DETAILS ON
    
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SPECIFIC CASES.
    
B. THIS SOURCE SAID THAT HE HAD MET WITH EVERETT ALVAREZ RECENTLY AND
THAT ALVAREZ HAD ASKED THE SAME QUESTIONS.
    
C. THIS SOURCE SAID THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO COOPERATE BUT THAT HE WOULD BE
OF LITTLE ASSISTANCE BECAUSE HE HAD NO DIRECT DEALINGS WITH ANY U.S.
PRISONERS.//

BT

#6007