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R 221822Z JUN 93 ZYB PSN-2-50952P23

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INFO WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC
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RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/EAP/VLC/CCS/OCS//
JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC//OCJCS/J5/PW-MIA/J3-JOD//
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USCINCPAC LO WASHINGTON DC
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RUEHBT/CJTFFA DET ONE BANGKOK TH

UNCLAS //N03460//

MSGID/GENADMIN/CDR JTF-FA/J2//

SUBJ/INTERVIEW OF REQUESTED SOURCE, MR. CAO NAN//

REF/A/FAX/DET 2/16MAY53//

AMPN/LIST OF PERSONS FOR INTERVIEW-SENATOR KERRY, ENTRY NUMBER
10 OF 83//

RMKS/1. BACKGROUND. ON 25 MAY 1993 IN HUE CITY, A JOINT
US/VIETNAM INTERVIEW TEAM INTERVIEWED MR. CAO NAN, A 64
YEAR-OLD RESIDENT OF NUMBER 72/A BA TRIEU ROAD, HUE CITY. MR.
NAN ADDED THAT HE WAS HAVING A HOUSE BUILT IN DA NANG CITY AND
WOULD BE MOVING THERE IN JULY. MR. NAN SAID THAT HE COULD NOT
RECALL HIS NEW ADDRESS BUT THAT HE WOULD INFORM LOCAL
OFFICIALS OF HIS ADDRESS CHANGE. THE TEAM MET AT THE HUONG
GIANG HOTEL, HUE CITY,

TO INTERVIEW NAN WHO IS LISTED IN REFERENCE AS A POTENTIAL
SOURCE OF INFORMATION CONCERNING U.S. PERSONNEL MISSING IN
ACTION IN VIETNAM. THE U.S. CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF MR.
[XXXX][XXXX][XXXX], JOINT TASK FORCE-FULL ACCOUNTING (JTF-FA)
DET 2 CASUALTY RESOLUTION SPECIALIST; AND PETTY OFFICER
[XXXX][XXXX], JTF-FA ANALYST/LINGUIST. THE VIETNAMESE CENTRAL
GOVERNMENT CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF LTC LE KY, MINISTRY OF
DEFENSE; AND MR. NGUYEN THANG LOI, MINISTRY OF INTERIOR. MR.
NAN HAD NOT BEEN

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INTERVIEWED BY JOINT TEAMS PREVIOUSLY.

2. SUMMARY. THE SOURCE PROVIDED INFORMATION ON THREE
INCIDENTS IN WHICH U.S. PERSONNEL HAD BEEN CAPTURED. HE
RECALLED THAT A TOTAL OF TEN INDIVIDUALS WERE INVOLVED IN
THE INCIDENTS. HE BELIEVED ALL BUT ONE OF THE TEN U.S.
PERSONNEL INVOLVED IN THE THREE INCIDENTS SURVIVED AND
RETURNED TO U.S. CONTROL.

3. DETAILS.

A. ON 25 MAY 1993, THE JOINT TEAM INTERVIEWED MR. CAO
NAN, A 64 YEAR OLD FORMER ENEMY PROSELYTING CADRE ASSIGNED
IN 1968 AS A CAPTAIN TO MILITARY REGION TRI-THIEN-HUE
(MRTTH). AFTER BEING INTRODUCED TO THE JOINT TEAM AND ITS
MISSION, MR. NAN SAID  THAT HE HAD CONTACT WITH U.S. CAPTIVES
IN TWO SEPARATE INCIDENTS DURIN6 THE WAR, AND THAT HE HAD HEARD
OF A THIRD INCIDENT INVOLVING U.S. PRISONERS IN MRTTH.

B. MR. ASKED THE QUESTION: "SINCE THE RELEASE OF U.S.
PRISONERS IN 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY LIVE AMERICANS?"
MR. NAN RESPONDED THAT TO HIS KNOWLEDGE. THERE HAVE BEEN NO
U.S. PRISONERS IN VIETNAM SINCE ALL U.S. PRISONERS WERE
RETURNED TO THE U.S. IN 1973.

C. MR. ASKED THE QUESTION: "SINCE THE RELEASE OF U.S.
PRISONERS IN 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY 'STAY-BEHINDS'?"
MR. NAN RESPONDED THAT TO HIS KNOWLEDGE, THERE WERE NO
STAY BEHINDS- IN VIETNAM AFTER ALL U.S. PRISONERS WERE RETURNED
TO THE U.S. IN 1973.

D. MR. NAN SAID THE FIRST INCIDENT IN WHICH HE WAS
INVOLVED WITH A U.S. PRISONER DURING THE WAR OCCURRED AT
APPROXIMATELY THE END OF JANUARY 1969. THE INCIDENT INVOLVED
A U.S. MARINE PRIVATE WHO WAS APPROXIMATELY 19 YEARS OF AGE
AT THE TIME. THE MARINE HAD BEEN IN VIETNAM FOR ONLY FIVE DAYS
WHEN HE LANDED IN DA NANG CITY WITH HIS UNIT. AFTER PROCESSING
IN THROUGH DANANG, ON HIS FOURTH DAY IN COUNTRY, THE MARINE
WENT WITH HIS UNIT INTO THE JUNGLE IN QUANG TRI PROVINCE. ON
THE FIFTH DAY, THE SOLDIER WAS CAPTURED AFTER BECOMING SEPARATED
FROM HIS UNIT AND LOST. THE MARINE WAS CAUCASIAN WITH REDDISH
BROWN HAIR. APPROXIMATELY FIVE- FEET SEVEN INCHES TALL, WEIGHED
AROUND 160 POUNDS AND HAD NO WEAPON. MR. NAN SAID HE PERSONALLY
LED THE MARINE OUT OF THE AREA, TRAVELLING FROM BOMB SHELTER TO
BOMB SHELTER. THE MARINE WAS EVENTUALLY TAKEN TO "THE REAR AREA"
AND NAN LATER HEARD THE MARINE'S NAME  WHICH SOUNDED SOMETHING
LIKE "[XXXX]". AS ONE OF A NUMBER OF RELEASEES ANNOUNCED IN A
RADIO BROADCAST. HE DID NOT REMEMBER THE DATE OF THE BROADCAST
BECAUSE HE WAS STILL OUT ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

E. MR. NAN WAS A CAPTAIN AND AN ASSISTANT TO THE ENEMY
PROSELYTING SECTION AT THE TIME  OF THE AMERICAN MARINE'S
CAPTURE. HE RECALLED THAT AT  THE TIME OF THE CAPTURE HE
REPORTED TO A MAJOR NAMED TIEN  (TIEENS), WHO WAS
APPROXIMATELY  43 YEARS OLD AND A NATIVE OF  HAI DUONG
PROVINCE. NAN DID NOT  KNOW WHO MAJOR TIEN

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REPORTED TO AT HIGHER LEVEL. BUT RECALLED THAT TIEN'S OFFICE
WAS DIRECTLY SUBORDINATE TO HQ MRTTH.

F. MR. NAN SAID THE SECOND INCIDENT IN WHICH HE WAS
INVOLVED WITH U.S. PRISONERS DURING THE WAR WAS A CASE
INVOLVING TWO FEMALES BELIEVED TO BE NURSES WHEN THEY WERE
CAPTURED DURING THE BATTLE FOR HUE IN 1968. WHEN NAN  ARRIVED
WHERE THE TWO CAPTIVES WERE BEING HELD, BOTH  FEMALES HAD
ALREADY BEEN INTERROGATED. NAN HEARD THAT ONE  FEMALE SAID
SHE WAS A TEACHER AND THE OTHER FEMALE SAID  SHE WAS A
DOCTOR. HE LATER HEARD A SAIGON RADIO  ANNOUNCEMENT THAT THE
TWO FEMALES HAD BEEN RELEASED. MR.  NAN SAID THAT HE COULD
NOT RECALL ANY FURTHER DETAILS  SINCE HIS CONTACT WITH THE
TWO PRISONERS HAD BEEN SO  BRIEF.

G. MR. NAN SAID THAT THE THIRD INCIDENT INVOLVING U.S.
PRISONERS OF WHICH HE WAS AWARE CONSISTED OF HEARSAY INFORMATION
IN WHICH SEVEN U.S. PRISONERS WERE CAPTURED DURING THE BATTLE
FOR HUE IN 1968 AT THE SAME TIME THE TWO FEMALES WERE CAPTURED. HE
HEARD THAT SEVEN PRISONERS WERE CAPTURED AND EVACUATED OUT OF
THE CITY. ONE OF THE INDIVIDUALS SUBSEQUENTLY DIED DURING A B-52
BOMBING RAID WHILE 'THE GROUP WAS ENROUTE TO THE NORTH. MR. NAN
SAID THAT HE DID NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THE BOMBING RAID AND
DEATH OF THE PRISONER OCCURRED, BUT HEARD THE LOCATION WAS ON
THE DOC CHE SLOPE (SOOCS CHEF) ADJACENT TO LAOS. HE SAID THAT THE
LOCATION WAS IN WESTERN THUA THIEN-HUE PROVINCE, A LUOI DISTRICT,
POSSIBLY NEAR HONG TIEN (HOONGF TIEENS) VILLAGE. TO GET THERE,
ONE WOULD TRAVEL ALONG ROUTE 12 TO VUNG TRON (VUNGX TRONF),
WHICH IS EAST OF CHE SLOPE, THEN WALK FOR APPROXIMATELY SIX HOURS TO
DOC CHE. WHEN PRESENTED WITH A MAP SHEET (NE-48-16) OF THE AREA,
HE IDENTIFIED THE MOUNTAIN PEAK AS PROBABLY HIGH POINT 1774
(YD3858). WITH THIS AS A REFERENCE POINT, MR. NAN SAID THAT THE
DEATH COULD HAVE OCCURRED ANYWHERE WITHIN A TEN KILOMETER SQUARE
DRAWN WITH A NORTH-SOUTH ORIENTATION IN WHICH THE SOUTHEAST
QUADRANT WOULD BE IN THE VICINITY OF GRID COORDINATES YD4005. AT
THIS POINT IN THE INTERVIEW, MR. NAN REITERATED THAT THIS
INCIDENT WAS ONLY HEARSAY. HE RECALLED HEARING ONE U.S.
PRISONER AND TWO PAVN SOLDIERS DIED IN THE BOMBING. MR. NAN
BELIEVED THAT THIS WAS LOGICAL BECAUSE ON THE EVACUATION ROUTE
AT THE TIME.

//MSGID/GENADMIN/CDR JTF-FA/J2//SUBJ/INTERVIEW OF REQUESTED
SOURCE, MR. CAO NAN//

RMKS/

EVACUEES WOULD HAVE BEEN TRAVELING IN CELLS OF THREE PEOPLE
(I.E., ONE U.S. AND TWO PAVN PER CELL). WHEN ASKED WHO WOULD
HAVE MADE THE EVACUATION ARRANGEMENTS AND ORDERS, HE SAID THAT
HE DID NOT KNOW BUT ASSUMED THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MRTTH OR THE
TRI THIEN HUE FRONT. NAN BELIEVED THAT THE REMAINING SIX
PRISONERS HAD SINCE BEEN RETURNED TO U.S. CONTROL.
                

                                   Page 3


H. CONCERNING WARTIME REPORTING ON U.S. PRISONERS, MR.
NAN SAID HE HAD NO INFORMATION WHICH MIGHT HELP LOCATE ANY
RECORDS OR ARCHIVES.

I. WITH NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS AT HAND FOR MR. NAN,
THE MEMBERS OF THE JOINT TEAM AGREED TO DISCONTINUE THIS
INTERVIEW. BOTH THE U.S. AND SRV MEMBERS CONFERRED ON
ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS WHICH SHOULD BE CONSIDERED BEFORE
CONCLUDING THE INTERVIEW.

4. CORRELATIONS TO EXISTING POW/MIA CASES.

A. THE SOURCE'S TESTIMONY POSSIBLY CORRELATES TO CASE 1563,
A RESOLVED CASE. THE CORRELATION IS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF
PERSONNEL INVOLVED. GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION. BRANCH OF SERVICE,  AND
GENERAL CIRCUMSTANCES OF LOSS. THE MARINE'S NAME IN THE
TESTIMONY. "[XXXX]", IS PHONETICALLY SIMILAR TO THE MISSING
INDIVIDUAL'S NAME IN CASE 1563. THE MAJOR DISCREPANCY  BETWEEN
THE TESTIMONY AND CASE 1563 IS DIFFERENCES IN THE  TIME FRAME;
MR. NAN SAID HE ESCORTED THE MARINE AT THE END  OF JANUARY 1969,
THE 1563 INCIDENT OCCURRED IN FEBRUARY  1970.

B. THE TESTIMONY CONCERNING THE TWO FEMALES CAPTURED
DURING THE BATTLE FOR HUE CITY CORRELATES TO CASE 1031, A
RESOLVED CASE. THE CORRELATION IS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF
INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED, THEIR GENDER, CIRCUMSTANCES OF  LOSS,
OCCUPATION (DOCTOR AND TEACHER), AND THE FACT THAT  BOTH
INDIVIDUALS WERE RELEASED FROM CAPTIVITY.

C. MR. NAN'S TESTIMONY CONCERNING THE PRISONER KILLED BY
B52 RAIDS WHILE BEING EVACUATED NORTH CORRELATES TO NO CASE
IN JTF-FA RECORDS. THOUGH ACCORDING TO JTF-FA RECORDS IT IS
POSSIBLE THAT A GROUP OF SEVEN PRISONERS TRAVELED NORTHWARD
FOR IMPRISONMENT AFTER THE BATTLE FOR HUE, THERE IS NO
RECORD OF AN INDIVIDUAL BEING LOST OR KILLED ALONG THE WAY.

5. POTENTIAL LEADS. MR. NAN IDENTIFIED MAJOR TIEN, CURRENT
RESIDENT OF HAI DUONG (HAIR ZWONG) PROVINCE, POSSIBLY NINH
GIANG DISTRICT. THIS INDIVIDUAL MAY BE ABLE TO PROVIDE MORE
INFORMATION CONCERNING MISSING U.S. PERSONNEL IN VIETNAM.

6. MATERIAL EVIDENCE: NONE. THIS SOURCE BROUGHT NO RECORDS
NOTEBOOKS. DIARIES, OR ANY MATERIAL EVIDENCE CONTEMPORARY TO
THE WARTIME ERA WHICH COULD BE ASSOCIATED WITH ANY UNACCOUNTED
FOR U.S. PERSONNEL.

7. COMMENTS.

A. AFTER THIS INTERVIEW, THE MEMBERS OF THE JOINT TEAM
ASSESSED ALL POTENTIAL ADDITIONAL LEADS PROVIDED BY THE SOURCE.
THE CONSENSUS OF TEAM MEMBERS WAS THAT CONTINUATION OF THIS
INTERVIEW OR AN ATTEMPT TO RE-INTERVIEW THIS SOURCE WOULD
DEPEND ON SIGNIFICANT QUESTIONS WHICH SHOULD BE ASKED PERTAINING
TO SPECIFIC INCIDENTS OR SPECIFIC QUESTIONS WHICH MIGHT LEAD TO
FINDINg NEW WITNESSES OR DISCOVERING CONTEMPORARY DOCUMENTATION

                                Page 4

WITH DETAILS ON SPECIFIC CASES.

B. THIS SOURCE WAS VERY COOPERATIVE AND RESPONDED QUICKLY
AND FRANKLY TO ALL QUESTIONS. HE APPEARED TO HAVE GOOD RECALL
OF SOME EVENTS AND VERY POOR RECALL OF OTHERS. HE ALSO
APPEARED TO BE EAGER TO MEET WITH AMERICANS FOR ANY REASON.
HE VOLUNTEERED TO NOTIFY LOCAL AUTHORITIES OF HIS NEW ADDRESS
SO THAT HE COULD BE REACHED FOR ANY FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS.

C. THE FACT THAT THE TESTIMONY CONCERNING THE TWO FEMALE
PRISONERS SO CLEARLY CORRELATES TO CASE 1031 LENDS  CREDIBILITY
TO THE REST OF MR. NAN'S TESTIMONY. THOUGH THE  OTHER TWO
INCIDENTS HE RELATED DO NOT NECESSARILY CORRELATE  TO JTF-FA
CASES,  BELIEVE HIS TESTIMONY IS VALID AND MAY BE  OF USE IN
THE FUTURE.

D. REQUEST THE VNOSMP ALLOW THE U.S. ACCESS TO THIS
SOURCE FOR FUTURE INTERVIEW IN THE EVENT THAT SIGNIFICANT
SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ARE DEEMED NECESSARY.//

BT
DLVR: CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU
HI(1)...ORIG

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