[211902Z.OH 05/04/96]

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SECTION 01 OF 02
DIA PASS TO DOD POW-MIA CENTRAL DOCUMENTATION OFFICE//
MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J2//
AMPN/SUBJ/INTERVIEW OF REQUESTED SOURCE, NGUYEN LY//
REF/A/FAX/DET 2/16MAY53//

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AMFN/SUBJ: LIST OF PERSONS FOR INTERVIEW-SENATOR KERRY, ENTRY 9,
OF 83//

RMKS/1. BACKGROUND. ON 25 MAY 1593 IN HUE CITY, A JOINT
US/VIETNAM INTERVIEW TEAM INTERVIEWED MR. NGUYEN LY, A 72-YEAR
OLD HUE CITY RESIDENT AND FORMER MILITARY REGION TRI-THIEN-HUE
MILITARY PROSELYTING CADRE. THE TEAM MET AT THE HUONG GIANG
HOTEL TO INTERVIEW MR. LY, WHO IS LISTED IN REFERENCE AS A
POTENTIAL SOURCE OF INFORMATION CONCERNING U.S. PERSONNEL MISSING
IN ACTION IN VIETNAM. THE U.S. CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF MR. KEITH
GARY FLANAGAN, JOINT TASK FORCE-FULL ACCOUNTING (JTF-FA) DET 2
CASUALTY RESOLUTION SPECIALIST; AND PETTY OFFICER JOHN L. HARVEY,
JTF-FA ANALYST/LINGUIST. THE VIETNAMESE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT
CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF LTC LE KY, MINISTRY OF DEFENSE; AND MR.
NGUYEN THANG LOI, MINISTRY OF INTERIOR. MR. LY SAID A JOINT TEAM
INCLUDING MR. GARNETT E. BELL OF THE U.S. AND LTC PHAM TEO OF THE
VIETNAM MINISTRY OF DEFENSE HAD INTERVIEWED HIM DURING THE LUNAR
NEW YEAR IN 1992.

2. SUMMARY. THE SOURCE PROVIDED LIMITED INFORMATION CONCERNING
ONE INCIDENT INVOLVING A U.S. PILOT WHO WAS CAPTURED AND
EVACUATED TO THE NORTH IN 1964 OR 1965. AS AN ENEMY PROSELYTING

PAGE 03 RUHQSGG6055 UNCLAS
CADRE, BEGINNING IN 1963, THE SOURCE WAS ASSIGNED PRIMARILY
TO THE MILITARY PROSELYTING BRANCH, WHICH DEALT
WITH PROSELYTING REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM ARMED FORCES
(RVNAF) PERSONNEL, AND HAD NO EXPERIENCE WITH ANTI-U.S.
PROSELYTING. HE RELATED CREDIBLE DETAILS CONCERNING HIS
MILITARY DUTIES AND RELATED WARTIME EXPERIENCE AND INDICATED

OTHER POTENTIAL SOURCES OF INFORMATION. HE CLAIMED TO HAVE
PROVIDED ALL OF THE INFORMATION HE COULD RECALL TO THE
PREVIOUS JOINT TEAM IN 1992.

3. DETAILS.
A. ON 25 MAY 1993, THE JOINT TEAM INTERVIEWED MR. NGUYEN LY
(NGUYEENX LYS), ALSO KNOWN AS PHAN VAN KHUONG (PHAN VAWN KHWONG).
AFTER BEING INTRODUCED TO THE JOINT TEAM AND ITS MISSION, MR. LY
BEGAN BY POINTING OUT HE REALLY HAD NO DIRECT CONTACT WITH U.S.
PRISONERS DURING THE WAR. HE CLAIMED HE KNEW OF ONLY ONE U.S.
PRISONER, A HELICOPTER PILOT WITH THE RANK OF CAPTAIN WHO WAS
SHOT DOWN IN 1964 OR 1965 OVER THUA THIEN-HUE PROVINCE. MR. LY
HAD BECOME A MILITARY PROSELYTING CADRE FOR MILITARY REGION TRI-
THIEN-HUE IN 1963 AND HAD HEARD ABOUT THIS PRISONER BECAUSE THE
PRISONER WAS THE FIRST SHOT DOWN AND CAPTURED IN THE AREA. AT
THE TIME, LY WAS ASSIGNED TO THE NORTHERN SUB-REGION OF INTER-

PAGE 04 RUHQSGG6055 UNCLAS

REGION FIVE (PHAAN KHU BAWCS THUOOCJ VEEF LIKEN KHU NAWM) AND
HEARD THT THE UNIT CREDITED WITH THE SHOOTDOWN AND CAPTURE
WAS THE "HUNG NGUYEN" UNIT STATIONED IN THE A LUOI AREA. MR.
LY RECALLED HEARING THE PILOT WAS CAUCASIAN AND WAS ESCORTED "TO
THE NORTH" BY AN INDIVIDUAL NAMED NGUYEN THONG (NGUYEENX THOONG),
WHOM LY THOUGHT WAS SENIOR TO HIMSELF BY APPROXIMATELY THREE YEARS.

B. IN 1963 MR. LY HELD  THE RANK OF MAJOR AND HIS MISSION WAS
MILITARY PROSELYTING (ANTI-RVNAF) RATHER THAN ANTI-U.S.
PROSELYTING. FOR THAT REASON HE CLAIMED TO HAVE HAD NO CONTACT
WITH   U.S. PRISONERS. HE CLAIMED A MAN NAMED CAO NANG WAS THE
INDIVIDUAL  INVOLVED IN ANTI-U.S.  PROSEELYTING MENTIONED AN
ENEMY PROSELYTING  CADRE IN THE REGION NAMED  NGUYEN HIEN
(NGUYEENX HIEENS). HIEN WAS  A MAJOR AND MAY HAVE RISEN  TO THE
RANK OF SENIOR COLONEL. MR. LY  BELIEVED HIEN, A NATIVE OF
NINH GIANG DISTRICT, HAI DUONG  PROVINCE, WAS PROBABLY
DECEASED.

C. MR. FLANAGAN ASKED THE QUESTION: "SINCE THE RELEASE OF U.S.
PRISONERS IN 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY LIVE AMERICANS?" MR. LY
RESPONDED THAT TO HIS KNOWLEDGE, SINCE 1973 NO U.S. POW'S REMAINED
IN VIETNAM. HE STATED HE WAS AWARE THAT MANY AMERICANS

PAGE 05 RUHQSGG6055 UNCLAS
HAD BEEN IN VIETNAM SINCE 1973, ESPECIALLY IN HUE CITY.

D. MR. FLANAGAN ASKED THE QUESTION: "SINCE THE RELEASE OF U.S.
PRISONERS IN 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY 'STAY-3EHINDS'?" MR.
LY  RESPONDED THAT TO HIS KNOWLEDGE, THERE WERE NO
STAYBEHINDS IN VIETNAM SINCE 1973.

E. CONCERNING WARTIME REPORTING ON U.S. PRISONERS. MR. LY
SAID THAT ANY DOCUMENTS OF THE TYPE THE TEAM IS INTERESTED IN
WOULD BE VERY SCARCE AND WOULD HAVE BEEN DISPERSED OUT OF THE
AREA RAPIDLY. HE SAID THAT NO DOCUMENTS OF ANY KIND WERE KEPT
WHERE HE SERVED.

F. CONCERNING EVACUATIONS OF PRISONERS, MR. LY SAID THAT. NO ONE
INDIVIDUAL PERSONALLY MADE THE EVACUATION DECISIONS. ONE UNIT OR
TEAM OR COMMO-LIAISON STATION PASSED THE PRISONERS ON TO THE NEXT
UNIT, TEAM, OR COMMO-LIAISON STATION. AS FAR AS PARTICULAR
OCCURENCES OF PRISONER EVACUATION MR. LY SAID HE HAD NO
INFORMATION, BUT A MAN KNOWN AS NGUYEN BA HUNG (NGUYEENX BAS  HUNGF)
MIGHT HAVE INFORMATION. MR. LY SAID HE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT HUNG
EXCEPT THE NAME. HE CLAIMED THE EVACUATION POLICY FOR PRISONERS
INCLUDED THE EDICT OF "SAFETY FIRST" ON EACH LEG OF THE EVACUATION.
PROGRESS TO THE LOCATION OF THE NEXT UNIT, TEAM, OR

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COMMO-LIAISON STATION WAS SECONDARY.

G. MR. LY IDENTIFIED THE FOLLOWING INDIVIDUALS WHO  COULD
POSSIBLY HAVE HAD INFORMATION  VALUABLE TO THE TEAM:

- (LNU) NGOC (NGOCJ), NOW DECEASED.

- HUNG (HUNGF, POSSIBLY THE SAME AS NGUYEN BA HUNG,
ABOVE), WHO DIED ABOUT THREE MONTHS AGO.

- (LNU) TIEN (TIEENS), AN OFFICE CHIEF IN HANOI (SPECIFIC
OFFICE WITHIN THE GENERAL POLITICAL DIRECTORATE NOT RECALLED
DURING THE WAR.

- NGUYEN VAN THOI (NGUYEENX VAWN THOWIF), FORMER CHIEF OF
THE ENEMY PROSELYTING DEPARTMENT IN HANOI. AT THIS POINT IN THE
INTERVIEW MR. LY SAID THAT HE COULD PROVIDE NO FURTHER DETAILS.

H. WITH NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FOR MR. LY, THE JOINT TEAM
MEMBERS AGREED TO DISCONTINUE THE INTERVIEW. BOTH THE U.S. AND SRV
MEMBERS CONFERRED ON ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS WHICH SHOULD BE
CONSIDERED BEFORE CONCLUDING THE INTERVIEW. 4. CORRELATIONS TO
EXISTING POW/MIA CASES. JTF-FA RECORDS HOLD NO INFORMATION
CORRELATING TO THE DATA PROVIDED  BY THE SOURCE //

BT

#6055

RCVI 0818                        01:00 06/25/S3

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DE RUHQSGG #6056 1701902
ZNR UUUUU
R 211902Z JUN 93 ZYB
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TO RUEKJCS/DIA WASHINGTON DC//PW-MIAX/
INFO RHEHNSC/WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//OASO-ISA/PU-hIAf/
RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/EAP/VLC/CCS/OCS//
RUERJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC//OCJCS/J5/PW-hIAfJ3-JOD//
RUHQHQB/USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J3/J30-M//
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MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J2//
RMKS/
DURING THIS INTERVIEW.

PAG 02 RUHQSSGG6056 UNCLAS

5. POTENTIAL LEADS. THE SOURCE PROVIDED THE NAES OF
INDIVIDUALS WHO MAY HAVE INFORMATION  CONCERNING HISSING U.S.
PERSONNEL:

A. NGUYEN THONG - ESCORTED A U.S. PRISONER 70 THE NORTH IN
1964 OR 1965.

B. CAO NAN - WARTIME ENEMY PROSELYTING CADRE.

C. NGUYEN HIEN - WARTIME ENEMY PROSELYTING CADRE.

D. (LNU)  TIEN - WARTIME  HANOI OFFICE CHIEF (EXACT POSITION
UNKNOWN).

E. NGUYEN VAN THOI - WARTIME CHIEF, ENEMY PROSELYTING
DEPARTMENT, HANOI.

6. MATERIAL  EVIDENCE: NONE. THIS SOURCE BROUGHT  NO RECORDS,
NOTEBOOKS, DIARIES, OR ANY MATERIAL EVIDENCE  CONTEMPORARY
TO THE WARTIME ERA WHICH COULD BE ASSOCIATED WITH ANY
UNACCOUNTED FOR U.S. PERSONNEL.

7. COMMENTS.

A. AFTER THIS INTERVIEW, THE MEMBERS OF THE JOINT TEAM  ASSESSED
ALL POTENTIAL ADDITIONAL LEADS PROVIDED BY  THE SOURCE. THE
CONSENSUS OF TEAM MEMBERS WAS THAT CONTINUATION OF THIS INTERVIEW
OR AN ATTEMPT TO RE-INTERVIEW THIS SOURCE WOULD DEPEND

PAGE 03 RUHPSGG6056 UNCLAS
ON SIGNIFICANT QUESTIONS WHICH SHOULD BE ASKED PERTAINING TO
SPECIFIC INCIDENTS OR SPECIFIC QUESTIONS WHICH MIGHT
LEAD TO FINDING  NEW WITNESSES OR DISCOVERING
CONTEMPORARY  DOCUMENTATION WITH DETAILS ON SPECIFIC CASES.

B. THIS SOURCE WAS VERY COOPERATIVE AND SEEMED TO ENJOY HIS
AMERICAN AUDIENCE. HE DID NOT APPEAR EVASIVE IN HIS ANSWERS BUT
GENUINELY APPEARED TO HAVE DIFFICULTY IN RECALLING ANY DETAILS
BEYOND WHAT HE PROVIDED.

C. REQUEST  THE VNOSMP ALLOW THE U.S. ACCESS TO THIS SOURCE
FOR  POTENTIAL FUTURE INTERVIEW IN THE EVENT THAT SIGNIFICANT
SPECIFIC  QUESTIONS ARE DEEMED NECESSARY.//

BT

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