[061812Z.OH 05/04/96]

NNNN
RCV12635            00:45 07/08/93
VZCZCBTO646
RR RUEHBT
DE RUHQSGG #2803 2871812
ZNR UUUUU
R 061812Z JUL 93 ZYB
FM CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI//J2//
TO RUEKJCS/OIA WASHINGTON DC//PW-MIA//
INFO RHEHNSC/WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH  DC
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//OASD-ISA/PW-MIA//
RUEHC/SECS TATE WASHING TON DC/VCA/OCS/CCS/EAP/VLC//
RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC//OCJCS/J5/PW-MIA/J3-JOD//
RUHQHQB/USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J3/J30-M//
RUEKJCS/USCINCPAC LO WASHINGTON DC
RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC//DEA/SEA/IB/DDO/EA/ICOG//
RUHVAAA/CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI//TAPC-PED-H//
RUEHBT/USDAO BANGKOK TH//PW-MIA//
RUEHBT/CJTFFA DET ONE BANGKOK TH
BT
UNCLAS //N03460//
MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J2//
AMPN/SUBJ/INTERVIEW OF REQUESTED  SOURCE, NGHIEM DINH TICH//
REF/A/FAX/DET 2/16MAY93//
AMPN/SUBJ: LIST OF PERSONS FOR INTERVIEW-SENATOR KERRY,
NUMBER  31 OF 83//
    
PAGE 02 RUHQSGG2803 UNCLAS
RMKS/I. BACKGROUND. ON 28 JUNE 1993, A JOINT U.S./VIETNAM ORAL
HISTORY PROGRAM INTERVIEW TEAM INTERVIEWED LTC NGHIEM DINH TICH,
A 48 YEAR OLD HANOI RESIDENT. LTC TICH IS CURRENTLY A SCIENTIFIC
RESEARCHER, FORMERLY A CONTRIBUTOR TO THE BOOK, "THE AIR AND AIR
DEFENSE FORCE MEMOIRS, VOLUME III." THE TEAM MET AT THE VIETNAM
NEWS AGENCY BUILDING, NUMBER 8 TRAN HUNG DAO STREET, HANOI, TO
INTERVIEW LTC TICH, LISTED IN REFERENCE AS A POTENTIAL SOURCE OF
INFORMATION CONCERNING U.S. PERSONNEL MISSING IN ACTION (MIA) IN
VIETNAM. THE U.S. CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF TSGT RONALD D. WARD
JTF-FA ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM COORDINATOR; AND PO2 JOHN HARVEY,
JTF-FA ANALYST/LINGUIST. THE VIETNAMESE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT
CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF LTC LE KY, MINISTRY OF DEFENSE;  AND MR.
THINH QUOC KHANH, MINISTRY OF INTERIOR. LTC TICH HAD NOT BEEN
INTERVIEWED BY A JOINT TEAM  BEFORE.

2. SUMMARY. THE SOURCE, LTC NGHIEM DINH TICH, PROVIDED NO
INFORMATION CONCERNING U.S. PERSONNEL MISSING IN ACTION IN
SOUTHEAST ASIA. HE SUMMARIZED HIS MILITARY CAREER AS WELL  AS
METHODS AND PURPOSES FOR CONTRIBUTING TO THE AIR AND AIR DEFENSE
MEMOIRS. LTC TICH CLAIMED NO KNOWLEDGE OF U.S. PERSONNEL, LIVING
FREELY OR AGAINST THEIR WILL, IN VIETNAM SINCE 1973.

PAGE 03 RUHQSGG2803 UNCLAS 3.
DETAILS.

A. AFTER FORMAL INTRODUCTIONS, LTC LE KY EXPLAINED THE JOINT TEAM'S
MISSION AND TSGT WARD BEGAN THE INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING TWO KEY
QUESTIONS:

(1) SINCE 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN OR HAD KNOWLEDGE OF U.S.
PRISONERS OF WAR (PW) CAPTIVE IN VIETNAM? LTC TICH SAID HE HAD NOT.

(2) SINCE 1973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN OR HAD KNOWLEDGE Of
AMERICAN "STAY-BEHINDS" IN VIETNAM? LTC TICH SAID HE HAD NOT.

B. FOLLOWING HIS RESPONSE TO THE FIRST TWO QUESTIONS, LTC
NGHIEM DINH TICH (NGHIEEM DINHF TICHS) EXPLAINED THAT HE HAD
JOINED THE MILITARY IN 1964 AS AN AIR DEFENSE SPECIALIST AND SPENT THE
NEXT 10 YEARS AS A RADAR OPERATOR IN THE NORTH. HE SAID THAT HE, LIKE
ALL RADAR OPERATORS, HAD TO MAINTAIN A HIGH TECHNICAL EXPERTISE AND
NEVER HAD TIME FOR CONCERN ABOUT THE DISPOSITION OF AMERICAN PW'S. LTC
TICH COULD NOT RECALL EVER HEARING OF ANY CIRCUMSTANCE CONCERNING AN
AMERICAN PW AND WAS NEVER DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH ANY AMERICAN DURING
THE WAR.

C. LTC TICH SAID THAT HE WAS AMONG THE SECOND GROUP OF
INDIVIDUALS ASKED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE WRITING OF THE AIR AND

PAGE 04 RUHQSGG2803 UNCLAS
AIR DEFENSE FORCE MEMOIRS.  HE  STATED, NIEM, VUONG, AND KY
(SEE PARA. 5, BELOW) WERE ALSO AMONG THIS GROUP. LTC TICH
WORKED AS A RESEARCHER ON THE BOOK FROM  1974 UNTIL 1978, WHEN HE WAS
TRANSFERRED TO A MILITARY TRAINING SCHOOL. LTC TICH EXPLAINED THAT THE BOOK
WAS TO BE USED AS PROPAGANDA FOR VIETNAMESE  TROOPS. HE SAID THAT HE
GATHERED INFORMATION ABOUT BATTLES AND INDIVIDUALS WHO  TOOK PART IN THE
BATTLES. THE BOOK, HE SAID, IS NOT ABOUT THE AMERICAN PARTICIPATION IN THE
WAR. LTC TICH COULD RECALL NOTHING FURTHER RELATING TO THE BOOK.

D. WITH NO FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR NGHIEM DINH TICH, THE JOINT TEAM
AGREED TO CONCLUDE THE INTERVIEW.

E. CORRELATIONS TO EXISTING POW/MIA CASES. NONE.

4. POTENTIAL LEADS. NGHIEM DINH TICH PROVIDED THE FOLLOWING NAMES AS OTHER
INDIVIDUALS WHO PARTICIPATED IN WRITING THE AIR AND AIR DEFENSE FORCE
MEMOIRS.

A. NGUYEN HONG NIEM (NGUYEENX HONGF NIEEMJ),  ALSO ENTRY NUMBER 31
FROM REFERENCE, WAS INTERVIEWED ON I9 JUNE 93 BY THE JOINT ORAL HISTORY
TEAM.

B. NGUYEN VUONG (NGUYEENX VWONGJ), ALSO ENTRY NUMBER 31 FROM
REFERENCE, WAS INTERVIEWED ON 21 JUNE 93 BY THE JOINT ORAL

PAGE 05 RUHQSGG2803 UNCLAS
HISTORY TEAM.

C. TRAN KY (TRAANF KYF), ALSO ENTRY NUMBER 31 FROM REFERENCE, WAS
INTERVIEWED ON 21 JUNE 93 BY THE JOINT ORAL HISTORY TEAM. 5. MATERIAL
EVIDENCE: NONE. THIS SOURCE BROUGHT NO RECORDS, NOTEBOOKS, DIARIES, OR
ANY MATERIAL EVIDENCE ASSOCIATED WITH UNACCOUNTED FOR U.S. PERSONNEL.

6. COMMENTS.

A. LTC TICH APPEARED EAGER TO TALK ABOUT HIS PART IN WRITING THE AIR
AND AIR DEFENSE FORCE MEMOIRS,  HOWEVER IT WAS APPARENT THAT HE HAD NO
INFORMATION TO CONTRIBUTE CONCERNING AMERICAN PW'S OR MIA'S  IN VIETNAM.

B. WHILE EXPRESSING HIS PLEASURE IN KNOWING THAT VIETNAM AND THE
UNITED STATES ARE WORKING TOGETHER TO RESOLVE THE PW/MIA PROBLEM, LTC TICH
STATED THAT HE WISHED THE TWO COUNTRIES WOULD INCLUDE VIETNAMESE MIA'S IN
THE NUMBER  OF THOSE STILL UNACCOUNTED FOR AND EXPAND THE SEARCH FOR THOSE
LOST IN THE WAR.

C. THE MEMBERS OF THE JOINT TEAM CONFERRED ON THE QUESTIONS TO BE
ASKED DURING THIS INTERVIEW. TEAM MEMBERS AGREED THAT THE NEED TO
RE-INTERVIEW THIS SUBJECT WOULD DEPEND ON WHETHER FURTHER

PAGE 06 RUHQSGG2803 UNCLAS QUESTIONS FOR LTC TICH ARISE DURING THE
COURSE OF THE ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW TEAM'S  FUTURE  WORK.

D. REQUEST THE VNOSMP HAKE LTC TICH AVAILABLE FOR
REINTERVIEW IF NECESSARY.//

BT

#2803

NNNN

RCV12633        40:39 07/08/93
VZCZCBTO644
RR RUEHBT
DE RUHQSGG #2789 1872822
ZNR UUUUU
R 061822Z JUL 93 ZYB
FM CDR JTF-FA HONOLULU HI//J2//
TO RUEKJCS/DIA WASHINGTON DC/PW-MIA//
INFO RHEHNSC/WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASH DC
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC//OASD-ISA/PW-HIA//
RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHINGTON DC//CA/OCS/CCS/EAP/VLC//
RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC//OCJCS/J5/PW-MIA/J3-JOD//
RUHQHQB/USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI//J3/J30-M//
RUEKJCS/USCINCPAC LO WASHINGTON DC
RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC//DEA/SEA/IB/DDO/EA/ICOG//
RUHVAAA/CDRUSACILHI HICKAM AFB HI//TAPC-PED-H//
RUEHBT/USDAO BANGKOK TH//PW-MIA//
RUEHBT/CJTFFA DET  ONE BANGKOK TH
BT
UNCLAS //N03460//
MSGID/SYS.RRM/CDR JTF-FA/J2//
AMPN/SUBJ/INTERVIEW OF REQUESTED SOURCE, DINH KHOI SY//
REF/A/FAX/DET 2/16MAY93//
AMPN/SUBJ: LIST OF PERSONS FOR INTERVIEW-SENATOR KERRY, ENTRY
NUMBER 32 OF 83//

PAGE 02 RUHQSGG2789 UNCLAS
RMKS/1.  BACKGROUND. ON 28 JUNE 1993, A JOINT U.S./VIETNAM ORAL
HISTORY PROGRAM INTERVIEW TEAM INTERVIEWED LTC DINH KHOI SY, A 50
YEAR OLD HANOI RESIDENT. LTC SY IS CURRENTLY A MILITARY
HISTORIAN FOR THE HISTORY COMPILATION  UNIT IN HANOI. LTC SY IS A
FORMER RESEARCHER WHO HELPED COMPILE "THE HISTORY OF THE AIR AND
AIR DEFENSE FORCE, VOLUME III." THE TEAM NET AT THE CENTER FOR
INTERNATIONAL NEWS AGENCY COOPERATION, VIETNAM NEWS AGENCY,
HANOI, TO INTERVIEW LTC SY, LISTED IN REFERENCE AS A POTENTIAL
SOURCE OF INFORMATION CONCERNING U.S. PERSONNEL MISSING IN ACTION
(MIA)  IN VIETNAM. THE U.S. CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF TSGT RONALD
D. WARD, JTF-FA ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM COORDINATOR; AND PO2 JOHN
HARVEY, JTF-FA ANALYST/LINGUIST. THE VIETNAMESE CENTRAL
GOVERNMENT CONTINGENT CONSISTED OF LTC LE KY, MINISTRY OF
Defense; AND MR. TRINH QUOC KHANH, MINISTRY OF INTERIOR. LTC SY
HAD NOT BEEN INTERVIEWED BY A JOINT TEAM  BEFORE.
2. SUMMARY.  THE SOURCE, DINH KHOI SY, PROVIDED NO INFORMATION
CONCERNING U.S. PERSONNEL MIA  IN SOUTHEAST ASIA. HE SUMMARIZED
HIS PART IN WRITING THE HISTORY OF THE AIR AND AIR DEFENSE FORCE,
VOLUME  III, AS WELL AS EXPLAINING THAT RESEARCH EFFORTS FOR THE
BOOK WERE DIRECTED TOWARD VIETNAMESE VICTORIES IN BATTLE AND THE

PAGE 03 RUHQSGG2789 UNCLAS
UNITS WHO TOOK PART IN THE ATTLES, NOT
AMERICAN MILITARY PERSONNEL. LT SY CLAIMED NO KNOWLEDGE OF U.S.
PERSONNEL, LIVING FREELY OR AGAINST THEIR WILL, IN VIETNAM
SINCE 1973.

3. DETAILS.

A. AFTER FORMAL INTRODUCTIONS, LTC LE KY EXPLAINED THE JOINT TEAM'S
MISSION AND TSGT WARD BEGAN THE INTERVIEW WITH THE FOLLOWING TWO KEY
QUESTIONS:

(1)  SINCE 2973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN OR HAD KNOWLEDGE OF U.S.
PRISONERS OF WAR (PW) CAPTIVE IN VIETNAM? LTC SY REPLIED HE HAD NOT.

(2) SINCE 2973, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN OR HAD KNOWLEDGE OF
AMERICAN "STAY-BEHINDS" IN VIETNAM? LTC SY REPLIED HE HAD NOT.

B. HAVING ANSWERED THE FIRST TWO QUESTIONS, LTC SY SAID
THROUGHOUT THE WAR HE WAS AN ANTI-AIRCRAFT ARTILLERY SPECIALIST
IN NORTH VIETNAM.  HE EXPLAINED THAT HE HAD SERVED AS AN AIR
DEFENSE SQUAD LEADER, PLATOON COMMANDER, AND COMPANY  COMMANDER
BETWEEN  1964 AND 1977. ANOTHER FUNCTION OF AIR DEFENSE  UNITS DURING
THIS PERIOD WAS  RECORDING VIETNAMESE MILITARY HISTORY. SINCE LTC SY
WAS INVOLVED IN THIS ENDEAVOR, HE WAS ASKED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE
WRITING OF THE HISTORY OF THE AIR AND AIR

PAGE 04 RUHQSGG2789 UNCLAS DEFENSE
FORCE MEMOIRS IN l977.

C. LTC  SY  EXPLAINED THAT DURING THE WAR  HIS UNIT DID  SHOOT
DOWN WHAT THEY BELIEVED TO BE AMERICAN AIRCRAFT, BUT NEVER
IMMEDIATELY  KNEW THE PILOT'S FATE.  WHEN THEY READ OF A CAPTURED
PILOT OR DOWNED AIRCRAFT IN THE NEWSPAPER, THEY TRIED TO
ASSOCIATE THE INCIDENT TO A BATTLE IN WHICH THEY WERE  INVOLVED,
AS WELL  AS DETERMINE WHICH Of THE GUNNERS HAY HAVE BN
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SHOOT DOWN. HIS UNIT'S MISSION, HE  SAID, WAS
STRICTLY AIR DEFENSE, NOT CAPTURING PRISONERS. HE  CONTINUED,
SAYING THAT IT WAS THE LOCAL MILITIA'S RESPONSIBILITY TO LOCATE
AND CAPTURE DOWNED PILOTS. LTC SY SAID HE  CANNOT RECALL EVER
SEEING AN AMERICAN PW OR EVER HEARING OF ANY SPECIFIC
CIRCUMSTANCE  REGARDING AN AMERICAN PW.

D. WHILE GATHERING INFORMATION FOR THE BOOK, LTC SY
EXPLAINED, HE USED FOUR SOURCES: THE PEOPLE'S ARMY NEWSPAPER
(QUAAN DOOIJ NHAAN ZAAN), THE PEOPLE'S  NEWSPAPER (NHAAN ZAAN),
INTERVIEWS  WITH INDIVIDUAL SOLDIERS, AND TRANSLATED VERSIONS OF
AMERICAN DOCUMENTS  AND BOOKS. IN ADDITION, HE READ MEMOIRS  BY
FORMER PRESIDENTS NIXON, JOHNSON, AND FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE
HENRY KISSINGER AS WELL  AS DECLASSIFIED AMERICAN DOCUMENTS (NFI)

PAGE 05 RUHQSGG2789 UNCLAS
WERE USED AS RESEARCH ITEMS, BUT ONLY TO GAIN
INSIGHT INTO U.S. PERCEPTIONS OF VIETNAMESE WARTIME STRATEGIES. THE
PHOTOGRAPHS USED IN THE BOOK, HE SAID, HERE PREVIOUSLY PUBLISHED OR
TAKEN FROM THE VIETNAM NEWS AGENCY.

E. LTC SY INFORMED THE JOINT TEAM THAT HE IS NOW  A MEMBER  OF THE
VIETNAMESE MILITARY HISTORY COMPILATION UNIT IN HANOI, WHICH  HAS BEGUN
WRITING A FOURTH VOLUME TO THE HISTORY OF THE AIR AND AIR DEFENSE FORCE
MEMOIR SERIES.

F. WITH NO FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR LTC SY, THE  JOINT  TEAM  AGREED TO
CONCLUDE THIS INTERVIEW.

4. CORRELATIONS TOE EXISTING POW/MIA CASES. NONE.

5. POTENTIAL LEADS. NONE.

6. MATERIAL EVIDENCE: NONE. THIS SOURCE BROUGHT
NO RECORDS, NOTEBOOKS,  DIARIES, OR ANY OTHER MATERIAL EVIDENT ASSOCIATED
WITH  UNACCOUNTED FOR U.S. PERSONNEL. 7. COMMENTS.

A. LTC SY WAS COOPERATIVE THROUGHOUT THE INTERVIEW. HE DID STATE,
HOWEVER, THAT HE COULD NOT UNDERSTAND WHY ANYONE IN THE UNITED STATES
WOULD SUSPECT THAT VIETNAM IS STILL HOLDING PRISONERS FORM THE WAR
AGAINST AMERICA, SINCE, HE CLAIMED,

PAGE 06 RUHQSGG2789 UNCLAS
VIETNAMESE TRADITION IS TO REPATRIATE ALL
PW'S  FOLLOWING  THE CONCLUSION OF A WAR.

B. THE MEMBERS  OF THE JOINT TEAM  CONFERRED ON THE QUESTIONS TO BE
ASKED DURING THIS INTERVIEW. TEAM  MEMBERS  AGREED THAT THE NEED TO
RE-INTERVIEW  THIS SUBJECT MOULD DEPEND OH WHETHER FURTHER QUESTIONS FOR
LTC SY ARISE   DURING THE COURSE OF THE ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW  TEAM'S
FUTURE WORK.

C. REQUEST HE VNOSMP MAKE LTC SY AVAILABLE FOR RE-INTERVIEW IF
NECESSARY.//

BT
#2789